Voluntary Human Extinction Movement - Page 4

I enjoy your sense of humor 'Wooly Bully'. I completely understand your statement (April 27, 2009 / 12:39 am), and I agree with you 110-percent.

'Death Wish' I too like cartoons and comic strips. Here's one of my favorites:

Hi,

I'm somewhat shy, so I waited for the hullabaloo to settle down before posting.

Two-years ago my favorite uncle told me about VHEMT because he was worried I'd get pregnant while away at college. I've always been grateful to him for this.

Anyway, I'm a VHEMT Volunteer because of the reasons that have already been stated by
'Wooly Bully'. I don't have anything to add to his statements, except that I'm going to
research VHEMT (and other sources) for 'hard to find' information, and then I'll post some of it.

You're a fun group of people! Thanks for the cartoons.

"Wooly Bully" can I be a Queen instead of a Princess (Honchess)?

'Deep Purple' and 'Death Wish' I enjoyed the cartoons and comic strips.

'AskWHY' you have a very intelligent, moral, and responsible Uncle.


'May We Live Long and Die Out.'

AskWHY your avatar is soooooo adorable.


'A picture is worth a thousand words.'

Hello everyone,

I wanted to chime in and see what everyone thinks....

What about the happiness that young children bring to their parents?
What about when we are old? I sure don't want to die alone.

I know that it is still very selfish to want to bring a life into the world, even if you justify it by wanting to "experience" raising a child. I get that there are alternatives, such as Big Brother stuff and adoption. Obviously we cannot fully control the outcome of our children...which is why I mentioned young children. My older brother knocked up his lady when I was about 13, so I was around to see the new additions and the fantastic feelings of love and togetherness that came afterward. This seems priceless, and so valuable to the otherwise shitty boring lives of my family. However, the selfishness is still there because it is impossible to guarantee a successful life of a child/person.

Secondly, on the note about dying alone, obviously having children does not guarantee that you will not die alone, but it seems more likely that you will not die alone if you have a family. There is something about dying alone that makes me sad...most of my family are old, with the exception of my two younger nephews. Within a decade, most of my family will be really old and probably will pass, which makes me want to have a family under me to experience those warm feelings, and to have that security when I am older.

Yeah, the alternatives to childbirth are there but it seems as if it cannot be the same experience....

i dont know, honestly I was hoping to get schooled by wooly bully haha

This has strayed from its original purpose as a discussion about overpopulation and VHEMT; it has become a thread about ego stroking...

So I've been reading through the website for VHEMT and I've come to two realizations:

1. In actuality I really agree with a lot of the things mentioned on the site including the problem of overpopulation which will present a terrible situation not only for humanity's eventual and perhaps inevitable conflict over scarce resources but for all other species and the planet as a whole as well.

That being said I find it rather disingenuous the way the website explains the position of the movement. The passive aggressive nature of many things on the site allows the site to attack while simultaneously appearing to care.
Now I don't want this misunderstood because I truly believe that the members of the movement are doing what they believe is right and they certainly have many lucid and well-researched points that deserve exploration, discussion, and consideration; but I still have misgivings concerning some of the people involved with the movement's website.
In the meantime there are indeed some significant and important issues brought up that should be discussed and considered.

héehe'e (hello, greeting / Cheyenne language )


I certainly agree with everybody that it's easier to have one spokesman to answer questions, and I don't have the time to write in-depth answers. If I have any input I'll E-mail 'Wooly Bully'.

So, Wooly Bully there are new posts, therefore the lectern is all yours.

Hello,

I'm a VHEMT Volunteer – any bonafide Cynic would be since bonafide Cynics
don't Breed 'evil' (Mankind= EVIL).

'Please' don't confuse me with those who are Pseudo-Cynics, or a Pollyanna.

There's NO WAY I have the patience to answer questions or statements the way 'Wooly Bully' can. So, he has my vote to be the spokesman. Frankly, I don't understand the problems some
of these people.......

There I go, losing my patience. That's why I'm like everyone else and I'll E-mail Wooly Bully.


So, here's my 'Pictures are worth a thousand words.'

'PLEASE' don't try to interpret the Breeding Pressure Gauge until you read about this at the VHEMT web site.


SOURCE:
http://vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#babies

TO: danman2_2999


NOTE:
'PLEASE' ensure you read all of my previous posts. Many of your questions and statements are answered in these posts.


First, 'Thank You' for visiting this Thread (topic).

Second, we hope you visit the VHEMT web site to learn more about the imminent threat of
Global overpopulation.


VHEMT (link)
http://vhemt.org/



The following is my evaluation of your April 28, 2009 post:



danman2_2999 (from end of his statement):
I don't know, honestly I was hoping to get schooled by Wooly Bully.


ANSWER:

I'll assume by your use of the word 'honestly' that you mean this statement literally.

Therefore, I will make an 'honest' effort to offer you a moral answer to your questions and statements. Yes, I do mean moral.

And 'No', I will not argue morals (see my Post of April 19, 2009).

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
What about the happiness that young children bring to their parents?


ANSWER:

That is an assumption on your part, and it's unknowable and unprovable what the numbers
would be.

In addition, the happiness of the adult is IRRELEVANT to the needs of the 'innocent child'.

Any adult who thinks their 'happiness' is more important than the needs of an innocent child is an egotist (egoist / egoism) and an immoral ass.

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
What about when we are old? I sure don't want to die alone.


ANSWER:

Who 'chose' to birth you into this existence which only ends in Death**?

That's correct – this 'choice' was made for (against) YOU by your parents.

Your parents KNEW you would die, but they didn't know how or when you would die.
That's your 'gamble' every day.

Only a Pollyanna believes he will grow old and die peacefully in bed.

So, your parents are the ones who put you in this situation (cause and effect / Causality).

BUT, your parent's decision (your birth) also affected the existence of everyone else:



'The illusion that we are separate from one another is an optical delusion of our consciousness.'
- Albert Einstein



**
'Death' and 'Life' are an unknown.
It's not possible to know what this existence is (or isn't). It's all theory (conjecture).


If you don't want to die alone then surround yourself with friends, pets, neighbors, and even consider adopting a child. It's immoral and egotistical to birth a human being because you're afraid of Death.

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
I know that it is still very selfish to want to bring a life into the world, even if you justify it by wanting to 'experience' raising a child.


ANSWER:

You stated 'selfish' which is correct, and 'justify' which is incorrect.

There isn't any justification in birthing a human being. The reasoning you stated is based on EGOISM and immorality, not necessity.

It's very important that you to read the following web page:

http://vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#babies

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
I get that there are alternatives, such as Big Brother stuff and adoption.


ANSWER:

I'm very pleased that you understand this.

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
Obviously we cannot fully control the outcome of our children...which is why I mentioned young children.


ANSWER:

I don't understand the context of what you mean. In addition, you're not specific about ages.
I'm skipping this statement.

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
My older brother knocked up his lady when I was about 13.....


ANSWER:

So, ten-years (a decade) ago, that's a long time. And, just after you had become a teenager.

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
.....so I was around to see the new additions and the fantastic feelings of love and togetherness that came afterward. This seems priceless, and so valuable.....


ANSWER:

You viewed that event through the eyes of a 'child'. You're glamorizing the past. The adult reality at that time wasn't glamorous:

         --- hospital bills
         --- health concerns
         --- constant tribulation

         --- ME jumping up and down screaming, 'NOT another human being!'
               (the birth of that human being affected my existence)


In addition, your personal experience is irrelevant to Global births. I'm not saying you were trying to apply your experience at a Global level, but other readers may infer this is what you meant.

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
......the otherwise shitty boring lives of my family.


ANSWER:

I will not answer this statement.

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
However, the selfishness is still there because it is impossible to guarantee a successful life of a child/person.


ANSWER:

Yes, you're correct, the EGOISM of your brother and his lady was the cause of their
immoral decision.

So, to satisfy their immoral desires they "chose" to VIOLATE my well-being.

I only have one planet to live on – Earth (Gaia).


Did you accept that answer as completely correct?

You shouldn't have. I left out the most important person – the CHILD. That's the major problem with adults; they're always thinking about themselves first versus the innocent child.

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
Secondly, on the note about dying alone, obviously having children does not guarantee that you will not die alone, but it seems more likely that you will not die alone if you have a family. There is something.......

........ when I am older.


ANSWER:

It's very important that you to read the following web page:

http://vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#babies

********************************************************


danman2_2999:
Yeah, the alternatives to childbirth are there but it seems as if it cannot be the same experience....


ANSWER:

It's very important that you to read the following web page:

http://vhemt.org/biobreed.htm#babies

********************************************************



SUMMARY

You (danman2_2999) stated, 'I don't know, honestly I was hoping to get schooled by Wooly Bully.'

Now you've been schooled by Wooly Bully. But, it's very important that you research (this means hours – not minutes) VHEMT about the imminent threat of Global overpopulation.


This is one of my favorite quotes:

         'What luck for Rulers that men don't think - they Breed like rats.'

               ab imo pectore,
               Gaius Julius Caesar

         ab imo pectore: 'from the bottom of my heart.'


Also, I have a challenge for you, and it's offered with 'Respect' and friendly intent.

CHALLENGE:
Use Google Images and search this phrase 'malnourished child'.


I can only view the images for 10-seconds before I'm crying, then I quit. This challenge should help you understand one of the purposes of VHEMT.

There are over 200,000+ DAILY births – what percentage of these innocent children match the pictures you researched at Google Images?

And, children's misery has many different levels – starvation, deformity, war (safety), disease, unhealthy living conditions, deficient inherited genes, lack of education, and on and on and on...........

Then DEATH.


You need to think Globally, not only your own backyard.


Once again, 'Thank You' for visiting this Thread (topic).

And, our hope is that you visit the VHEMT web site to learn more about the imminent threat of
Global overpopulation.


VHEMT (link)
http://vhemt.org/



POPULATION CLOCKS

http://www.yourecosource.com/blog/earth-clock/

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

TO: KGB


Hey, wait a minute, where's my discourse about punctuation?

'KGB' you're a man of Honor (you didn't edit your information of April 23, 2009) and you have a sense of humor. Kudos.


'Thank You' for visiting the VHEMT web site. We appreciate your action to learn more about the imminent threat of Global overpopulation.



The following is my evaluation of your April 28, 2009 post:



KGB:
So I've been reading through the website for VHEMT and I've come to two realizations:


ANSWER:

You know, and I know, that we could discuss the VHEMT web site for years and years.

Yet, at the end of all that discussion it comes down to one question which a person has to ask himself, and this question requires an intelligent, educated, logical, mature, moral, and
unselfish answer:

            'Am I going to birth a human being into this hostile existence, and Death?'

********************************************************


KGB:
In actuality I really agree with a lot of the things mentioned on the site........

............. important issues brought up that should be discussed and considered.


ANSWER:

The main objective of VHEMT is to provide a resource for people to educate themselves about the imminent threat of Global overpopulation.

VHEMT accomplishes that objective.

Since the primary objective has been accomplished, other arguments are a moot point*.

* moot – of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

********************************************************



SUMMARY

You (KGB) stated, 'In actuality I really agree with a lot of the things mentioned on the site........

FANTASTIC! You've begun your research to answer the most difficult question:

            'Am I going to birth a human being into this hostile existence, and Death?'


To help you maintain perspective during your research I offer you this:

CHALLENGE:
Use Google Images and search this phrase 'malnourished child'.


This challenge is offered with all due 'Respect' and friendly intent.


I can only view the images for 10-seconds before I'm crying, then I quit. This challenge should help you understand one of the purposes of VHEMT.

There are over 200,000+ DAILY births – what percentage of these innocent children match the pictures you researched at Google Images?

And, children's misery has many different levels – starvation, deformity, war (safety), disease, unhealthy living conditions, deficient inherited genes, lack of education, and on and on and on...........

Then DEATH.


You need to think Globally, not only your own backyard.



         'Time is the coin of life, be wise how you spend it, or others will spend it for you.'

Thank You, for spending some of the 'coin of your life' discussing this very important subject.



POPULATION CLOCKS

http://www.yourecosource.com/blog/earth-clock/

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

Okay, this post may be a little longer than the others and parts of it will be irrelevant to this particular discussion so bear with me.

First, its always good to know you're not the only one with a sense of humor, and I've always enjoyed the saying, "Don't take life too seriously; you'll never get out of it alive." Elbert Hubbard.

And second, for Wooly Bully (since you asked so nicely:
Punctuation – everything in a sentence other than the words and numbers.
Punctuation is a linguistic device used to allow a reader to determine the way a written sentence is to be read. It includes, but is not limited to, commas, periods, question and exclamation marks, dashes, ellipses, and so on. Punctuation is used in every language and comes with its own set of rules for each all of which are constantly changing. These marks do not symbolize phonemes or lexemes (sounds, words, and phrases) but rather provide organization for writing.
General overview only; see google for explanations involving individual marks.

Now that we have the irrelevancies out of the way on to the meat of the post.

You say "Since the primary objective has been accomplished, other arguments are a moot point."
I must humbly and respectfully disagree with half of that statement. The primary objective is being accomplished, I will agree there. However, there are secondary objectives that the website implies are part of the movement. And because there are objectives however secondary there are other relevant issues to discuss. In point of fact I don't see that the primary objective requires much discussion at all.
Here's why:
The primary objective is, we agree, to educate people about the dangers of overpopulation. But people agree that this is a danger. So the primary objective is essentially a unanimously agreed upon issue (bear in mind that people don't always understand the various connections between this and VHEMT so it may not always seem that people agree).
It is ultimately the secondary objectives that present a problem for the movement. As such, it seems it would be most prudent to discuss these issues, would it not? And the most controversial aspect of the movement is of course the extinction aspect. Now we both understand that this is not the main goal of the movement of the website but with quotes such as these:
'As VHEMT Volunteers know, the hopeful alternative to the extinction of millions of species of plants and animals is the voluntary extinction of one species: Homo sapiens... us.'
'When every human chooses to stop breeding, Earth's biosphere will be allowed to return to its former glory, and all remaining creatures will be free to live, die, evolve (if they believe in evolution), and will perhaps pass away, as so many of Nature's "experiments" have done throughout the eons.

It's going to take all of us going.'
it becomes clear that even though members understand the reality of this endpoint being unlikely to occur, it is still the ultimate endpoint for the movement however unlikely an end they may consider it to be.
Now you and I are of course in agreement concerning most of what you've posted and I do enjoy these discussions because knowledge is, as they say, power and every viewpoint can offer a new perspective to consider and increase the chances of successfully solving mankind's problems. We just differ on the endgame that this will all lead to (though we agree on the same path to get to the end).

So, thanks for these enlightening conversations and maybe we can someday instigate real change in this sad, sad world.

P.S. thanks also for bearing with this rambling post; it's all over the place, I know.

I'm lazy, so I let you guys and 'Wooly Bully' do the work.

Yo' Buddy (Wooly Bully), no way, no way, no way would I ever spend 'the coin of my life'
responding to.......

I'm too lazy. Thank goodness we have you.

I'm always annoyed by the 'Myths' (nice way of saying LIES) regarding the Earth's resources.
People are very undereducated about the division of Earth's resources. They 'believe**' all the gross exaggerations published by governments, immoral intellectualists, academia, and so on.

Have people lost their common-sense? Did they ever have any? Why do they fail at performing simple math?

**
A false belief is not considered to be knowledge, even if it is sincere.

It's important for people to understand that Mathematics doesn't deceive.

Whereas, EGOISM is completely deceptive.



TO: Future Posters who might post at this Thread:


It's preferred by the majority of Posters at this Thread that you don't post your
lengthy critique (evaluation) of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT) web site.


But, if you must post:

'What message are you trying to express with your critique (evaluation) of the VHEMT web site?'


SUMMARIZE your message in one sentence at the very beginning of your critique.

Examples:

      'VHEMT isn't.....'

      'VHEMT doesn't....'

      'VHEMT is......'

      'VHEMT could.....'

      and so on...

Also, this quote applies to your critique:

         'YOU can compress the most words into the smallest idea of anyone I know.'

Paraphrase: Small ideas don't require a large amount of words.



FACT:

VHEMT is a valid resource for people who are trying to educate themselves about the
imminent threat of Global overpopulation.


What web site have you developed to educate people about this dire calamity? Oh, NONE!!!

You're so quick to criticize those who are spending their personal money and Time (private web site, no funding). Yet, you've done NOTHING!!!



FACT:

Your 'Idea' is:

            'It's a good thing to Breed human beings now and/or in the future."

That IS an immoral idea.



It's probable that your thought process is:

'I don't like the VHEMT web site. Some, of their ideas upset me. I don't like some of the people who support this web site. Some of their statements are not logical. Are they being honest? What about this? What about that? Could it be? '

.......and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.......


Are YOU going to 'Throw out the baby with the bath water?' **

Obviously, I'm referring to the VHEMT web site as the "baby".


FACT:

The VHEMT web site is a very valuable and valid educational resource.


FACT:

The previous fact is indisputable.


----END OF STATEMENT----




** Discard something valuable along with something not wanted.


EXAMPLE:

'I know you don't approve of that one item in the Congressional Bill, but we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water by voting the bill down.'

This expression – with its vivid image of a baby being tossed out with a stream of dirty water – is probably translated from a German proverb, Das Kind mit dem Bade ausschütten ('Pour the baby out with the bath').

It was first recorded in English in 1853 by Thomas Carlyle, who translated many works from German.

SOURCE:
http://www.answers.com/topic/throw-out-the-baby-with-the-bath-water



SOURCE (Chart):
http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpopgraph.html

http://www.vhemt.org/demography.htm#dud

NOTE:
This isn't a simple chart to understand. I'm serious.
"Please" research this chart at the VHEMT web site.

quote:

---

VHEMT is a valid resource

---

what makes the VHEMT website a valid resource?