Voluntary Human Extinction Movement - Page 9

TO: NicOfTime

Are you going to answer my personal E-mail that I sent you?

If not, I'm going to publicly post said E-mail so that everyone can understand the current situation.

I have nothing to hide, Wooly. Here's the email you sent to me, with my response:

quote:

---

TO: NicOfTime

SUBJECT:
Negotiation for Resolution of May 20, 2009 Posts


PROLOGUE:
I am the 'Spokesman' for the majority of Posters on this Thread. I maintain contact with them through Facebook.com.

Are we at an impasse?

My (our) purpose for restarting VHEMT at Captain Cynic is to maintain focus on the moral issue regarding the innocent children. I (we) will not capitulate.

Your post of May 20, 2009 (2:39:59 pm) refers to Operations Procedures which were posted FIVE years ago (February 24, 2004 / 11:34:43 pm) by the member 'neo-ocelot'.

It's obvious to a person of your intelligence and education that I changed the direction of this Thread to focus on the moral issue regarding the innocent children.

So far, your posts have detracted (misdirection) from my (our) message and intent.

I'm (we're) not saying that you are undereducated or an instigator. In fact, you're very intelligent and well educated.

But, at some point I must refocus the discussion upon the moral issue regarding the innocent children.

What are your suggestions?

P.S.
This message was written with all due "Respect" and friendly intent.

---

I have yet to see any support whatsoever for the claim that I'm somehow "belittling the moral issue regarding innocent children".

I looked at the OP (Opening Post), did some reading at the VHEMT site, then responded with comments/opinions in the spirit in which those comments/opinions were invited. Doesn't matter to me how old the post or thread is -- the OP sets the topic, and comments thereafter need to, within reason, stay pretty much on-line with that.

That's all. Nothing more. I'm not "belittling" anything or anybody. I'm simply making comments in accordance with the spirit of the OP. All my comments have been on-topic, with a bit of non-malicious humor thrown in for good measure (humor that itself is based entirely on the topic of how "overpopulation" could be interpreted). I'm not "debating" anything because there has been nothing presented for "debate", nor has anything been presented in a format formal enough to invoke rigid debate rules, though I try to be respectful -- at least to the point where I get accused of saying things that I didn't, or to the point where I'm being "educated" on formal debate rules by someone who's not adhering to those rules himself.

You've chosen not to address any of my points directly -- and I'm okay with that. I don't really see any "impasse", other than the fact that we each have our own opinions and viewpoints, an "impasse" that characterizes human relationships in a significant percentage of the population.

But it appears you're reading stuff into my comments that just isn't there (strawmen) -- and, no, I don't think that's fair.

There doesn't appear to be a large amount of activity here. So someone comes along and livens things up a bit in a perfectly benign way with perfectly benign intent, and he's seen as a distraction?

What's up with that? Don't y'all want a few non-malicious comments around here?

Wooly -- no obligation to respond to any of my posts at all. I don't consider each post a formal debate. More like stream of consciousness. At the same time, every post helps contextualize every other post -- providing information that should eventually convince any reasonably intelligent person that I have no agendas here other than semi-cerebral entertainment, and I'm every bit as harmless as I claim to be. This is a video game to me. Every player is on his own playing field -- kind of like golf, everyone has his own ball, rather than teams or individuals fighting over one ball. Mostly what I seek is good spirit, good character here. Folks that give me some sense of security that the entire human race isn't bonkers, there there are a few islands of relative rationality in an ocean of insanity.

Interesting how few people seem to enjoy that game.

TO: NicOfTime


'Thank You' for your honesty in posting my personal E-mail that I sent you.

I too have nothing to hide.


The following is my evaluation of your May 20, 2009 (4:20 pm) post:


NicOfTime:
I have yet to see any support whatsoever for the claim that I'm somehow "belittling the moral issue regarding innocent children".


ANSWER:

PROLOGUE:
I am the 'Spokesman' for the majority of Posters on this Thread. I maintain contact with them through Facebook.com.


My (our) purpose for restarting VHEMT at Captain Cynic is to maintain focus on the moral issue regarding the innocent children.

It's obvious to a person of your intelligence and education that I changed the direction of this Thread to focus on the moral issue regarding the innocent children.

So far, your posts have detracted (misdirection) from my (our) message and intent.

I'm (we're) not saying that you are undereducated or an instigator. If fact, you're very intelligent and well educated.

But, at some point I must refocus the discussion upon the moral issue regarding the
innocent children.

**********************************************************************


NicOfTime:
I looked at the OP (Opening Post), did some reading at the VHEMT site, then responded with comments/opinions........


ANSWER:

'Thank You' for clarifying OP with your definition of 'Opening Post'.

I (we) understand your statement. But, in the interest of 'Community Spirit' we choose not to start
a new Thread which would have had the same title – Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.

**********************************************************************

NicOfTime:
That's all. Nothing more. I'm not.......


ANSWER:

Many discussions (forums) that involve more than one person (okay, even one person can argue with himself) are an 'argument' or a 'debate'.

As you judge me, so I will judge you. As you say this, I say that. We could go on and on and on.....

That's not productive and a waste of time.

Yes, you are basically a 'respectful' person and I (we) greatly appreciate that.

**********************************************************************


NicOfTime:
You've chosen not to address any of my points directly -- and I'm okay with that.


ANSWER:

I (we) keep my (our) focus upon the moral issue regarding the innocent children.

**********************************************************************


NicOfTime:
I don't really see any "impasse", other than the fact that we each have our own opinions and viewpoints.


ANSWER:

The impasse is that numerous posts which aren't directly related to the PRIMARY MESSAGE cause a loss of focus on the PRIMARY MESSAGE which is a twofold message:

            - Protection of innocent children.

            -Imminent threat of Global overpopulation.

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NicOfTime:
But it appears you're reading stuff into my comments that just isn't there (strawmen) -- and,
no, I don't think that's fair.


ANSWER:

Fairness is an important concern. But, once again, you and I (we) could argue this forever.

Yet, I know the fairness of this Thread is to keep focus on the PRIMARY MESSAGE.

Therefore, whenever others post numerous statements which aren't directly related to
the PRIMARY MESSAGE – there will be 'friendly' reminders from me (us) about the
PRIMARY MESSAGE.

**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************


The following is my evaluation of your May 20, 2009 (5:24 pm) post:


NicOfTime:
There doesn't appear to be a large amount of activity here. So someone comes along.....comments around here?


ANSWER:

Yes, I (we) agree with you that you have 'benign intent'. As do I (we).

But, I (we) disagree with you that about 'activity'.

Uh oh, there we are again: 'We agree to disagree.'

And, no you're not a 'distraction'. You're a respectful, intelligent, and well educated person who is a 'Welcomed' addition to the VHEMT Community as a 'Supporter'.

**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
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The following is my evaluation of your May 20, 2009 (5:41 pm) post:

NicOfTime:
Wooly -- no obligation to respond to any of my posts at all. I don't consider each ........


ANSWER:

'Thank You' for the release from any obligation to respond.

Seriously though, as you well know, 'It is actions, not words, that reveal.'

I (we) accept your present actions as a new member to this Thread (topic). – 'Time tells all.'

**********************************************************************


FINAL SUMMARY

My (our) intent is to 'Welcome' you to the VHEMT Community as a 'Supporter'.

Given the low level of activity at this site -- and even more so in this thread -- it appears that the time spent focused on your "central message" is having a low rate of return, a poor cost:benefit ratio.

You still haven't supported your accusation that I'm "belittling the moral issue regarding innocent children" -- and this seems curious to me because you are insisting it's your main message here, your most important focus, but one issue that seems to be off-topic here is exactly what you mean by "belittling the moral issue regarding innocent children", and exactly what the so-called "primary message" is.

Where have I said that? How have I implied that? What justifies that accusation?

Seems if that's your focus, then that ought to be the title of your thread -- assuming, of course, that "staying on topic" is really one of the tenets that drives the posting behavior in this community (according to the rules I read anyway). And you might even get more traffic in a thread that's more appropriately titled -- where the central focus, the "primary message", of the thread pertains to the actual title of it. A matter of staying "on-topic", isn't it?

I guarantee that, in any thread I would start, the "primary message" -- the actual topic of the thread -- will be contained in the title, and explained by the OP. That's what I call "on topic".

Apparently we disagree about that, too? Or are the rules here also meant to be broken by everyone else, too?

TO: NicOfTime


Are you spoofing me?

We've made it clear that you are "Welcomed" here.

We've made it clear that your "numerous" posts (actions / NOT words) which aren't directly related
to the moral issue regarding innocent children will require a "friendly" reminder about the twofold PRIMARY MESSAGE.

Our intent is to ensure the PRIMARY MESSAGE isn't lost in your "semi-cerebral entertainment" (NicOfTime phrase / Post May 20, 2009 - 5:41 pm).

quote:

---

'Welcomed' addition to the VHEMT Community as a 'Supporter'.

---

I appreciate the welcome -- but I'm no so sure that it's appropriate to label me a "supporter" until and unless I declare that support myself. Otherwise, you're just putting words in my mouth. If we disagree, then you really can't consider me a "supporter" -- I don't see any sense in supporting something I don't agree with.

I support only rational people, ideas, and causes. I have no more choice than anyone else does but to define what "rational" means by my own criteria.

TO: NicOfTime


The following is my evaluation of your May 20, 2009 (6:33 pm) post:


NicOfTime:
I appreciate the welcome -- but I'm no so sure that it's appropriate to label me a "supporter" until and unless.......


ANSWER:

Yes, you're 100% correct. I misstated about your relationship to VHEMT. I was confused by one of your previous posts (May 19, 2009 - 10:39 am).

My "friendly" intent was meant to clarify to others how you "relate" to VHEMT. Please remember VHEMT is about "ideas", not membership in a dues paying club.

Therefore, my use of the term "Supporter" was in the VHEMT context:

VHEMT Supporter:
'Intentional creation of one more of us by any of us is unjustifiable at this time. Extinction of the human species goes too far.'
http://vhemt.org/join.htm

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NicOfTime:
Otherwise, you're just putting words in my mouth. If we.....


ANSWER:

Yes, you're 100% correct. It would be unconscionable of me to "put words in your mouth".

As I've explained it was my misstatement (not purposeful) and you have my "Apologies".

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FINAL SUMMARY

Human communication (verbal, written, body language, etc.) is difficult. Frequently there are misunderstandings and "emotions" can overshadow Logic.

Hopefully you understand that I'm (we) not accusing you of "words" you didn't write, but your
actions (numerous posts) weren't directly related to the moral issue regarding innocent children.

Once again, you have my "Apologies" for my misstatement.

And, you are "Welcomed" here.

TO: Everyone


To completely understand this controversial Thread (topic) you must read my previous posts:

                     April 19 – 20 – 23 – 25 – 27 – 29
                     (2009)

                     May 4 – 5 – 14 – 20
                     (2009)


Otherwise, you will not understand the twofold PRIMARY MESSAGE of this Thread (topic):

                  - Protection of innocent children.

                  - Imminent threat of Global overpopulation.



POPULATION CLOCKS

http://www.yourecosource.com/blog/earth-clock/

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

World Population

6,781,344,630

"Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense." VHEMT Website

Phasing out the human race? Are you kidding me? First of all its not people themselves that is destroying the biosphere, its our actions. Becoming more in tuned with our HOME and learning to live WITH IT instead of worrying about how much money we can make - that right there is one of the biggest steps we can take in cleaning this mess up.

Our Earth is so crowded because sexuality and sexual conduct is hardly discussed with our youth. Its become so taboo, especially in America that its not okay to discuss with kids about what it means to reproduce and what the implications are if you choose to not inform yourself.

have you ever once though about if we did stop breeding, what would happen to our kids when we actually do decide to bring them into this world? we'll all be too old to pass down precious information and culture that could be lost. If that happens... over population will be the least of this earths worries.

what we need is an evolution of the self, not the destruction of it.

TO: MugenNoKarayami


It's obvious that you're spoofing (tomfoolery) us.

BUT, after reading some of your posts at Captain Cynic.....


The following is my evaluation of your May 21, 2009 post:


MugenNoKarayami:
Phasing out the human race? Are you ......


ANSWER:

Your questions and statements were answered by my previous posts:

                  April 19 – 20 – 23 – 24 – 25 – 27 – 29
                  (2009)

                  May 4 – 5 – 14 – 20
                  (2009)


It's obvious that you didn't read my posts or research VHEMT.

You're confused about VHEMT and you lack knowledge of the imminent threat of
Global overpopulation.

In addition, your entire statement is illogical, which is due to your ignorance about numerous subjects (i.e. sociocybernetics, genetics, psychology, biology, sociology, and so on).

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SUMMARY

It's unfortunate for you, me, and the World that you choose to be ignorant about the required subject knowledge.


   'Time is the coin of life, be wise how you spend it, or others will spend it for you.'


You stand on one side of the fence, and I stand on the other – 'We agree, to disagree.'



POPULATION CLOCKS

http://www.yourecosource.com/blog/earth-clock/

http://math.berkeley.edu/~galen/popclk.html

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html




SOURCE:
For interpretation of this chart go to: http://vhemt.org/join.htm

World Population

6,781,826,598



Hello,

While roaming about on the Internet I accidentally discovered the Captain Cynic web site, and
this topic.

I didn't even attempt to post here until I had finished reading the posts by our
spokesman Wooly Bully, research VHEMT web site, and research other information
about overpopulation.

I've made my Life Decision about human breeding and I choose:


'NO WAY am I going to breed a human being. I choose adoption, or maybe I'll become involved with children in other ways.'


Anyway, I'm thrilled to be here and to be part of the VHEMT Community.

I simply adore the VHEMT web site phrase, 'We are vehement about VHEMT.'


P.S.
Wooly Bully you're doing a FANTASTIC job! Thank You.




"Global Economies are interdependent and because of this the World Economy is a freight train out of control."

SOURCES:

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Debt_Clock

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np


The theme of cartoons is fun. So, here is mine:

Hi Candy Girl,


WELCOME!

We're happy you found Captain Cynic and VHEMT.

In addition, I (we) appreciate that you accomplished reading and research before posting here.
And, "Thank You" for the compliment.

I (we) too enjoy the cartoon theme.

Once again, "Welcome" to the VHEMT Community.
(Volunteer / Supporter / Undecided)
http://vhemt.org/join.htm