Does GOD Not Existed? - Page 11

Its people like you that when explorers find a new land mass filled with new colored people that can't talk to you right and explain that they wonder why they exist and that they are people too, that they get slaughtered, they don't have real value, they don't speak my language,

So, you do a lot of talking to animals I take it, oh wait, does that mean you speak their language, maybe they don't want to talk to people because they know better than to bother. Does it matter to you that most animals have languages as complicated as our own? Does it matter to you that they care for their young too? They don't just kill eachother for no reason, territory/rank, food, and self defense, nothing anywhere near as atrocious as humans reasons for killing.

You are no different than anyone else who wants to prove they are right, you say everything points to proving you and all points to the contrary are simply false and the work of the devil. You are most likely in need of some serious mouth wash, because you are talking a lot of shit.

So, what is the fate of all people who existed before the bible, or did you not realize that your religion is a baby in the world of religion let alone in the history of mankind. You sound too scared of your vengeful god to even fully question such things, your god doesn't sound too forgiving. And unless you are the pure non-sinner you may just want to pack you fire proof bags now.

You said people are given all chances to accept god in whatever way needed to save them, I so disagree that it is kinda funny. That would have to be the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.

i agree with leftwood and the animal thing. Survival of the fittest within the animal kingdom is necessary in order for species survival, it has NOTHING to do with human's version of killing.

Cyber, its your feeling that you are absolutely right that scares me the most.

"And . . . when we remove God from human activity we end up not with human activity but animal activity, or animal behavior."
What is animal behaviour? Animal behaviour is when you are a peasant working the land, being whipped and told what to do and what to think. In short, its what christianity was about from the years 500 to 1500.
" Where there is no God, there are little or no rights to life, to liberty, and to the pursuit of happiness."
Nonesense. Again, things like freedom, equality and rights were develloped as basically SECULAR values long after Christ was dead.

"The rise of the anthropomorphic mouse called Mickey Mouse has caused many people to think that mice can think like human beings, and live and act like human beings. Of course, they cannot by any means."
They can suffer like we do, feel pain, dogs and cows even have emotions. But you are right there is a difference : man can pretend he is more.

"It is a logical conclusion to reason in the following fashion.
1. There is no God.
2. Therefore, all life, being an accident, is equal.
3. Conclusion: all life has equal rights."
Absolutely.


"1. All human beings are animal, but not all animals are human beings. Only human beings are human beings."
Well dont we all agree on that?

"3. Those human being who choose not to be spiritual beings (beings created by God) are indeed animals, and they should be extended the courtesy we give to animals. "Choose this day whom you will serve.""
Thanks.

"The same God who Created us with life, liberty, and the right to work for happiness also created us to be free. The ability to have freewill is lost when there is no freedom. It is God who gave freedom and freewill."
Well I dont believe in freewill, I dont think we can assert it either way.

". The awareness that I exist includes my awareness that you also exist."
I beg to differ. I am aware I exist. I know nothing of you, you are hypothetical, you might be a figament of my imagination. I am, you might be.

"The physical world does not explain consciousness in any way. There is nothing in the material world that would suggest that matter, living or dead, animal or mineral, would ever become self-conscious."
I agree with you we dont know what causes it. That doesnt mean it isnt there. We dont know enough about the brain.

"It is wishful thinking some make to get around and dispose of God, the First Source."
There is no reason to believe consciousness came from an intelligent being, any more then it came from the particular structure of our brains.

"I know he exists, but he does not seem to know. It is a long, long jump between the gorilla, who does not seem to know much about his existence, and my personality, which knows it (I) exist."
That's not true, gorillas, or at least chimps, can see themselves in a mirror. And recognise it is them, dogs dont do that.

"Summing this up, we see that we have self-awareness, that it must have come from somewhere other than the material world, "
So claims you, but we simply dont know. I suspect what makes us conscious and animals not, is the same that makes us different from animals in other ways : our brains.

"It takes too much faith to believe otherwise."
Nonesense. There is every reason to believe consciousness comes from our brains. Atheists have not enshrined faith (lazyness and self-delusion) and turned into a holy precept as if you need to lie to find truth.

And I am perfectly aware of how "I AM", in fact it is a central part of my argument against God. I call it "existence", I argue "I AMness" is the only definition of existence. See my design or necessity thread.

When it comes to animals especially in terms of communication, are you guys familiar with Cocoa the gorilla? Who happens to speak human sign language?

heh who isnt? yesterday i saw some show on the discovery channel where these people were building some sort of truck for Cocoa... i could swear they made it for her to drive, but maybe i misunderstood. i was doing a lot of things at once and my attention toward the television started to wane.

"We hold these truth to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
I was reading an interesting webpage the other day. It was an opinion board, or a chat session. There was a supposed atheist who was objecting to the insertion of God into the discussion of civil rights and civil liberties. I found this to be a strange thing to do when people are discussing civil rights. If you are an atheist, or a confirmed agnostic (if there can be such a thing), then perhaps you need to re-examine your views and your positions on civil liberties. I say this with kindness.
A civil right is a civil permission. It is a permission to engage in certain activity on the stage of civility, the place where civil people dwell. A civil society is one that is organized for the maximum benefit of each citizen in the society, as I would see it. But civil liberties and civil rights cannot just suddenly drop from the sky, can they? Can they suddenly endow you, you the human entity, with liberty, freedom, choice and unalienable rights? I think not. I know not.
"All men (and women) are created equal." "They are endowed by their Creator." This is one of the opening lines for the creation of a nation established on earth to be like no other nation that has ever been established. The reason that the United States of America is unique is that it recognizes where civil rights come from. The founding documents point to God, our Creator, our Father, and our Protector, and our Provider. It is God the Creator who created us and created our Nation under God. We are "one nation under God."
The atheist and the unbelievers, the agnostics all have the wrong acoustics. They cannot hear God in their plans in their lives. If your civil rights are not rights granted by the Creator, then there are no rights. There can be no unalienable permission if there is no one to permit anything. If there is no God, then no one has a right to anything. In that moment, might rules. Where might makes right, then rights disappear from among the living on earth, and soon the living disappear, also. Have we not witness a host of nations that have risen and fallen which have been based on something other than the permissions granted by a kind and benevolent Creator?
If you have civil rights, which are civil permissions, and if God the Creator did not create them and you, then where did your civil rights come from? Either you don't have any, or else they came from someone or something other than the Creator. If they came from someone, then they must have come from your king, or your queen. Or, your civil rights must have come from your dictator, or your strong man, or your supreme military general, or perhaps your prime minister. But if you have civil rights, then someone gave them to you. You got certain unalienable rights from someone or something.
If your civil rights came from other men, then you must consider that those same men, or men like them, can take them away from you as quickly as they gave them unto you. What the human being gives, he also takes. Like dollars and jobs. Men tax other men's rear ends off. They do this when there is a Creator. Lord, help us, if there is no Creator! Now, that sounds like a paradox. But, your civil liberties came from God, or they came from other men, or they came from Nature (whatever that might be). But Nature does not grant rights, unless we consider that the rights of the jungle are rights we want for ourselves
If you think that civil rights came from Nature, then you have not watched enough nature shows on television. You have not watched "Animal Planet" nearly enough. You will know what I am talking about when you see a lion run down a gazelle or an impala on television. The lion soon starts ripping chunks of meat from the body of the gazelle. Those are your natural civil rights.
We have seen in the past several hundred years nations come and go. We have seen the nations come into being, and while being a nation, they murder, kill, torture and maim their own citizens. The reason the leaders of the nations do this is because they think that they have a right to do it to their citizens. They think that they granted civil liberties to their citizens. And, if this is so, then they can take them away at any time. The time to remove citizens is "when they get in the way." Stalin did it. Hitler did it. Hussein did it.
You may have heard that kings rule by divine right. This is surely true, if any human beings have rights. Kings have always claimed that they rule by the permission of God the Creator. Some kings or pharaohs, and such like, have even claimed that THEY ARE GOD. Kings have plenary power, which means plenty of power. They have it all in a real monarchy.
But, in the American System, this divine right to rule comes from God and is given directly to the people, rather than to the king, or to some other head of government. The just powers of government "derive from the consent of the governed." This is true, if all men and women are created equal. But if they are not created, then they are not created equal. That is the crux of the issue. You atheists need to look at your own political doctrine.
The "animal-rights activists" have all been watching too many Walt Disney cartoons. "Bambi" is a good example. Animals, beasts of the field, crawling and creeping things have all been by Disney anthropo-morphed into living, thinking, and feeling human beings. But it is not so. While the lower order of beings live, they do not think, and they do not feel with the emotions that human beings feel. The bottom line is that animals cannot perceive, nor conceive, the concept of having a Creator, so they remain animal: animals without rights. Animals are not aware of their own existence (that we can tell), and therefore, without this "I AM" factor, they remain animals. Animals have been animated, but they have not been humanized.
But it is reasonable, it is rational, IF THERE IS NO CREATOR, to reach the conclusion that all of us living beings are animals, and all being animals, we all have the same liberties, and the same rights. This is ridiculous in the extreme, and is totally absurd. But is has a certain reasonableness if there is no God, and thus, no Creator.
If there is no God, and no Creator, then in the area of civil rights, you atheists don't have a leg to stand on. You might be better off to be a grasshopper. He has six legs.
I write this with respect for you atheists. I grant to you the fact that my Creator gave you civil rights just as he granted them to me. "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." "He who is free in Christ is free indeed." "For freedom did Christ set us free."
Freedom begins and ends with God.
Respectfully speaking, of course.


Ah! one thing more!

Dumbteen said what if ther's no holy spirit.

Then you'll not lost anything, and no heaven.
but what if there is! I go to Heaven and you will go the Hell.
Think.

Seekers of God
Do Not be Discouraged

It seems that many of us human beings are too timid, or else too arrogant, to honestly and forthrightly seek their God. It is sometimes difficult, and sometimes we feel disheartened and discouraged, thinking that we are all alone and forsaken. Some find Jesus himself a stumblingblock to finding their Creator and Heavenly Father. I find him to be my loving Savior, example, and the provider of eternal life.

1 Kings 19:11. And he (God) said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake (break) in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

We seek God sometimes in the wrong places. This seeking happens perhaps because of our misunderstanding about God himself. Sometimes we have so many incorrect preconceived notions about our Father-God. God is in everything, in his creation.

But we will not find God in the wind. We will not find him in the mountains. We will not find him in an earthquake. Nor will we find God in a fire. The Lord God is not in the fire. He is in the still small voice that all of his children are capable of hearing if we simply and sincerely seek after him. The God we seek is in the still small voice that we seek. God is the still small voice that ever seeks us to turn from the cares of this world ant listen to him. "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock." I believe this is the door to your heart.
I should go on to say that we will not find the still small voice of God in churches, or cathedrals, or other physical buildings, although we could find him if we are there honestly seeking his voice.

We will not find God in our religious routines or lists of dogma. He cannot be found with the human mind, so much as with the human heart, when the heart sincerely seeks after him. Matthew 15:8. "This people draw nigh unto me with their mouth, and honour me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." God accepts the sincerity of the heart and not the pronouncements of the lips.
Matthew, chapter 5, Commonly called the Beatitudes. Beautiful words.

verse 1. And seeing the multitudes, he (Jesus) went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2. And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3. Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11. Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
You may notice that the children of God, those who will inherit the kingdom of God, are sometimes not the same kind of people we find in organized groups, or among some of the leaders of these groups.
We should be careful what we value. That sets our tone and defines our mission here on this earth.
Matthew 11:28. Come unto me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Matthew 6: 21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

May you find success in being still, and in listening to the small voice of God, which will give you direction. This is the voice of goodness, kindness, gentleness, love, patience and understanding, prudence, moderation and forgiveness. When these begin to grow and be magnified in your life, you can know that you are beginning your eternal journey back to your Father-God. "For he who asks, receives, and he who seeks, finds." -- Jesus

This is true, no matter what anyone tells you.

Why do Atheists Protest So?

"The fool has said in his heart, there is no God."

Galatians 5: 22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering (patience), gentleness, goodness, faith, 23. Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

There is no way for me to know how many atheists there are out there in the world. There is no way of knowing how many might read my message to them . Not very many, probably in this thread.

Actually, atheists have so little time to exist that they should not waste any of it arguing with believers in God. They know just as well as I know, that we will all be equal in 100 years. That is, we will all be equally dead. We will all achieve room temperature. I don't want to take any of their time, which really is, for them, a life time. I want to see them get back to building their castles in the sand. I want to see them happy during their brief sparkle with God's life-giving force. Or should I say, "force-giving life?"
Jesus said, "Do you desire eternal life?" It is too plain that atheists don't desire it. I can handle that. I can apprehend that. I cannot comprehend it, though. Why would anyone turn down an opportunity to live forever?
Well, if eternity is simply one eternal church service, then I may skip eternity, also. But it is not, of course. We need to shuck off bad thinking. (Like shucking corn, sir. Remove the indigestible stuff.)

We cannot attract atheists to bad ideas and expect them to want bad experiences, eternal or temporal. But all people who could know the beauty and peace and wonder of the real life eternal, they would WANT IT.

It is surely the silly stuff that religionists want to put atheists through that turns them off. It also turns me off. How can anyone believe in a silly God? "If I have to go through all of that rigmarole, then I am not going."
Both the atheist and I agree on that point.

But, knowing what I know (or think I know), and believing what I believe, I will opt (choose) eternal life. that way I won't be too concerned when the tides of time wash away my sand castles.

And if I am wrong, I still die happy.

I dont have time read all that because its to damn much.

"The reason that the United States of America is unique is that it recognizes where civil rights come from. The founding documents point to God, our Creator, our Father, and our Protector, and our Provider."
Nonesense! The USA is special because it was the first nation to RECOGNISE civil rights, not where they came from. Learn history. If what you are saying was true, Iran would be a paradise.I

Anyone smell spam?

Dumbteen

There is no reason to believe consciousness came from an intelligent being, any more then it came from the particular structure of our brains.

I suspect what makes us conscious and animals not, is the same that makes us different from animals in other ways : our brains.

Nonesense. There is every reason to believe consciousness comes from our brains.

I am giving you theory according to my faith – or God's believer's faith that justify we are right. So discuss your arguments supporting with precise evidence not just from your own opinion. (This what you believe in living the first place.)


And I am perfectly aware of how "I AM",

Delusions! You don't even know why you exist.... Same you cannot explain which one came first egg or chicken.

Leftwood:
When it comes to animals especially in terms of communication, are you guys familiar with Cocoa the gorilla? Who happens to speak human sign language?

Yeah! And their kind is closed to mammalian human beings chose to live equally right with them. (It's Dumbteen, who absolutely beleived "all life has equally rights."

Dont have time to read all this shits!

Or tell me you cannot argue these facts of reality.!!!!

"I am giving you theory according to my faith – or God's believer's faith that justify we are right. So discuss your arguments supporting with precise evidence not just from your own opinion."
Well I'm no brain surgeon. I dont really know for sure where consciounsess comes from, but I dont pretend to know and then call it faith. But remember, the only difference between us and animals is our brains really (specifically, the speech bit), so one would think that consciousness (which most animals dont have) indeed comes from our brains. No certainty, but "God" seems like an arbitrary and meaningless answer.