Does GOD Not Existed? - Page 4

Elemental -
"Many people swear just for the fun of it, and that is maybe the stupidest thing ever.
Rational mind...? "
If you really feel uncomfortable with the term, I will stop. However I did not use it for fun. I used it because I felt it was very appropriate.

"It is still our choice to follow that light inside ourselves, or to become selfish and ask why should we when God has not done anything for me lately."
It is not selfish! It is just that reason dictates that an all good all powerful God would not let evil exist. God has not left me any reason whatsoever to believe in him, and by reason I do not mean motive. Is it my fault that God has made the argument for His existence so unconvincing?

"It is my logic that you hate the very source of good in this world"
I don't hate that source of Good, I would love it if I believed it existed. However, I don't believe it exists, so I don't know how I could hate it.

", and that is your choice to say that then stand by and do little as you can to live like a king and do nothing in God's name to help the world. For that, my logic says you are evil."

You think I am incapable of helping others, incapable of empathy and incapable of Good? You think Good can only be done in God's name?
Let me tell you, far more evil has been done in the name of God then good. The slaughter of tens of thousands of native americans, the Salem (sp?) witch trials, the Spanish Inquisition, the Indulgences of the Roman Catholic Church, the 30 years War and the Crusades.
You are closing your eyes to the world if you believe God's followers only do Good and we Godless Heathens are incapable of Good.

You believe out of Faith, fine. However, I refuse to believe something for no good reason especially when so much evidence is against that belief, please try to empathize with that.

stella_hond - " What would u say if the picture starts acting like ur supereur and starts doing things contraury to ur rules."
What rules? IF I believed in God but still disobeyed him you would have a point. An agnostic would be like the picture not knowing the painter exists.

" just because ur confused . I think ur doing this, because, either ur aseind or ur looking for attention."
Confused. Is every Godless person confused? I do not want attention. I want to justify my beliefs (as was the purpose of this thread). Not every non-christian is being an arrogant rebel (christians are a MINORITY, there is more to the world then just America).

"Death for those people on 9/11 doesn't mean a bad thing, it's just that their love ones will miss them. For the dead people it means waiting for judgment day."
There's more to the universe then 9/11. There are infinitely worse examples of evil, done to people who did not deserve to suffer in such a way. I've given these examples many times already so I won't continue.

"About wat u call, innocent people dying, just like I said, the end time is near, non-christian will die, the christian will die, the musleam will also die. And there is not specific way they will die, some of us will die a painful death, some peacefully."
Do you have to keep threatening us?
Honestly I wish a muslim would post. It might help put things in perspective.

And a muslim it is !
I agree a little bit with dumb teen. It is sheer stuipidity if your sole basis for beleif in God is belief, withought ANY reason whatsoever.
Anyway, so basically, dumb teen does not beleive in God becasue there is so much evil happening. But that is also illogical. People think that if anything bad happens, it is because of God. Well, you COULD say that, because He gave us free will! If somebody fires a bullet at you, it won't turn magically into a flower!then no one would bother reading physics!
Look, plain and simple, God has given us free will, if I decide to shoot you, I abuse it, if I decide not to shoot you, I make proper use of it, in neither cases of good or bad would God have any hand.
This is a very old fashioned pattern of thinking that has long been out lived and out thought. Since the beggining people havethought that if any thing bad happens, it is because of God, and if any thing good happens, it is because of God. So if dumb teen beleives that this is the case if God exists, then that basically means that life is predetermined, we can't do anything, becasue God will do it for us. If I stand up and kill you, its not my fault, it's Gods because He let it happen.
Thing is, we should not think why bad things happen to good people(some say that God tests them, not very accurate), but should accept the fact. God has chosen to let this universe evovle according to laws. He has chosen not to be a controll freak.

Any objections dumb teen?

"Thing is, we should not think why bad things happen to good people(some say that God tests them, not very accurate), but should accept the fact. God has chosen to let this universe evovle according to laws. He has chosen not to be a controll freak.

Any objections dumb teen?"
Well, its just that the only way this is possible is if God is rather cruel (unless I am missing something) or at least he cannot be all good. Anyway that's just why I can't believe, if that's not a problem for you, more power to you.

I am not trying to convert anyone. I am just trying to change people's view on God. I am trying to show that he is good and that he actually loves us.

First, sorry for getting mad about swearing. It just hurt cause I love God.

Why should God prove himself to you? For one, what makes you so special that you just have to know all of a suddenly on demand that God exists, whereas the majority of the world had to go through Hell to even know Hell existed along with God.
Unless you are some part of God's plan and you are going to change the world for him or he needs you to do something for him that must be done, why should he have to proove himself to you?

God is supposed to keep himself on a low profile. That is his plan. He is going to watch us to see if we do what is right when we think no one is looking. If we knew with logic that God existed, this world would serve no purpose. If we knew he was there, we would not be doing anything bad. It is the beliefe that is there that makes us strive to do what is right. When we have no idea if God is there or not, so we have a chance to see if we are really good enough. If you live a life the you BELIEVE is good, or do you sin because you don't know God existed.
Then there are some who say, God never showed himself to me, so in that case, I will live my life to get what I want for myself, and if God asks why you did it, they say "you never showed me that you existed so I never knew what was right and wrong."
Life is a test to see if you are doing what you believe is right because you have a sense of duty. A duty to what is right, not to God. Will you do what you believe is right, not what was proven right.

I didn't say you were incapable of doing good. I kinda called you a hypocrite because you say God has the power to stop evil, but he doesn't. Guess what. you have power too, but you are living like a king instead of helping out what is right.

When you speak of the things done in God's name, there comes the conversation of Logic and Faith again.
The things you spoke of were done in the name of the Logic that God exists. The very thing that you are trying to gain. Becuase the white thougth that the ones with dark skin and primitive means were evil, they killed them. Because some girls acted wierd sometimes and told the town that people were putting curses on them, the LOGIC of the court sentenced innocent people to death. I do not know enough of the crusades to talk about those.
These things were done because of LOGIC.
Did God do any of it? The people did it. That is where the evil comes from! God allows us to choose, and some of us choose sin.
If one truely believes that they are doing what is right, I think they will not be punished. Not if they know it is right. Knowledge can be corrupted.
The man sent to jail because everyone knew that China did not exist. The men burned at the stake because the world knew that the the planet was flat. People died because logic was distorted. These victims even had evidence, and yet still were destroyed. Can people not believe anymore that there is a heart that tells them what is right?

It does not matter on your religion as long as you do what you believe is right. Not what you know. Not what you have evidence of. Life is figuring out on your own, your own journey, your own discovery of who you are going to be. And God watches.

(Life is about our choices, not God's)

"Well, its just that the only way this is possible is if God is rather cruel (unless I am missing something) or at least he cannot be all good. Anyway that's just why I can't believe, if that's not a problem for you, more power to you.~DumbTeen.
Some of us are trying to show you what we think you are missing. There are some of us who believe God loves us. That is why we love him so much.

My evidence that God exists is personal. The life I have, the light I sense, and the feelings I get that everything is going to be ok when things suck right now. I believe God loves me, and I love him for it. I think he is there for good.

Do you guys know the story of Satan? This is my relation of it.
God had a plan, but he needed a sinless person to pay for all the sins the rest of the universe had done. That ment tourture and such of many exremes.
Satan said to send him. Satan vowed that he would make sure every single person would return to God. Because Satan would have done this, he said that he should get all the glory for doing it too.
Jesus then said to send him. Jesus vowed that he would follow through with God's plan to let the world have freedom, and because it was God's plan, he would do it all in God's name.
Now God sent Jesus. Not because God would get the glory, but because he wanted man to be free, and he knew what kind of a person Satan was long before the conversation that was discussed. Satan got angry and rebelled, took people to his side. God finally cast Satan out with his followers.
Now first, Satan is the one who is cruel. You say God allows evil, and for that he is cruel. I say that God gives us freedom, but Satan tempts us to abuse that freedom, so he is cruel.
Second, Satan seems to be the person some of you would have chosen for a savior. He would have made sure that now one did anything wrong for his own glory. Some of you would like that, a world with no freedom and nothing wrong.

Finally, Stella. You seem to be making your argument worse. By my perception, you tell people that they are not good because they do not believe in God. You tell them that they offend people and such. You are the one calling them confused, you are the one saying that they are craving attention. You represent what I do not appreciate about a religious person. I hate the people in my church who live life doing what is right because they were raised in a church and know it is right. They do what is right because they have been taught it, and at times, they are the worst because they pride themselves for knowing what they think is true, but don't life it. The thing I hate is that they tell people to do what is right and teach them such, but they do not tell them to-or help them, or help them find out how to- find what is right.

Please tell me if I offended anyone. I hope I made no enemies. I don't want enemies, I want friends. I am just trying to set to light that God is a good person. If you do or do not believe, ok. But if you think he is there or not, I don't want it to be because you think he is evil. I want it to be because of what you believe is right. I believe that if we all do what is right, we will see each other in the end.

thats a pretty good interpretation of it all, Elemental. i agree with the thoughts about peoples evidence of Gods exsistence being personal. no matter what you say to somebody, they will not understand your personal "proof" but rather they will try to pick it apart and critisize it in every way possible.

Elemental, i don't judge people that do not belief in God, but that doesn't mean that i'm gonna sit there and watch people insult my God that i've serving my whole life. If u think i'm making my argument worse by defending wat i know, then i don't agree with u.
And u can't me tell that a non-christian person wasn't taught the different between right and wrong, u don't need to be a christian to know wat's wrong and right.

You, Elemental, as a christian should know that God says in the Bible that 'we as christians shouldn't judge people'.
Just like u said, God is keeping Himself on a low profiel, so wat proof do others need to believe in Him. If u really love God as u say do, then u ought to defend Him and His commandments, when someone says otherwise about Him.

That's wat u do when u love someone, u defend the person.
I respect everybody's choose of religion in life, but do not dare to judge mine and having the nerve to say that i'm wasting my time praying and going to church. That's wat Dumbteen said. And the only thing i could do is, tell them otherwise.

Stella

"I didn't say you were incapable of doing good. I kinda called you a hypocrite because you say God has the power to stop evil, but he doesn't. Guess what. you have power too, but you are living like a king instead of helping out what is right."
I didn't understand that, very true though. Not much I can say really.

"These things were done because of LOGIC. "
A form of logic combined with an irrational belief, which is ultimately illogical.

"My evidence that God exists is personal. The life I have, the light I sense, and the feelings I get that everything is going to be ok when things suck right now. I believe God loves me, and I love him for it. I think he is there for good. "
Yes, I think that's pretty much a 'good' belief in God, which no one can refuse.

Stella, you defended God by insulting other people in his name! Tthat is just what DT has been talking about. Taking beliefs to an unholy level.
I defended God by stating my side of the story and ASKING DT not to swear at God. You mocked them.

If you listened to any of my debate, than you would know that I was saying that everyone has a sense of what is right and wrong. That we will all be together in the end if we all do what we believe is right. Where is it that you are getting the thought that I think only christians have a sense of good and wrong?

~You, Elemental, as a christian should know that God says in the Bible that 'we as christians shouldn't judge people'.~ Stella.
Yeah, about the comment with me thinking only christians know good and write, this thing does not justify your argument at all. Rather that it takes the thought that it is below a christian to judge people, but the rest of the world can go ahead and judge people.

None of the emoticons would express my facial expression, Stella.

Elemental,
wat do u mean by i mock people
This debat about the existance of God is not about who's got the best argument, i did not respond on the thread with mind to have the best argument. I accidently saw it on newest posts, wat i read did not suit me, so i as wel told by side of the story.
I don't even know why u'r critizing the way i defended my religion. And u should also know that Christianty is not a religion, but a way of life, so everybody has the right to serve God.
If u think it was my intention to mock them, it wasn't, this's how i respond on things and i don't think God doesn't love the ones who refuse to belief in Him. But as a christian i see it to be my duty to say otherwise when i see or hear somebody mocking the existance of God.
I don't mock non-christians or watever religion someone has at all.
I live them to leave their lives however they want as long as they don't critize mine. Because i don't critize somebody elses religion. If u ask me, i'll say all mankind is God's children, including the mulisms and the ones who needs prove to belief in Him.
So, i didn't mock them at all

Stella

"...including the Mulisms...I live them to leave...a debate is not about the best argument(?)...so I as wel told by side of the story..."

Stella, your posts are some of the most painful to read. Please review them before submission. Please.

*sigh* Stella, you might want to even review your whole case:
"wat do u mean by i mock people"~Stella

Ok, so, lets pull up a few random quotes from you.

"I respect everybody's choose of religion in life, but do not dare to judge mine"
I started with this one first becasue it build basis upon you mocking people. This is a pointer to you because you say you respect other people's religions. You then go on to take shots at Athiests in quotes to come, showing you to be a liar. Your next statement tells people to not judge yours. This shows you to be a hypocrite because of your shots at non believers and such.

"Unbelievers are not Worthy enough for God to reveal Himself to".
Just a basic thought, not too deep, but you are kinda saying people are not good enough because they are not believing in God. Now, I understand that earlier, I stated that God has no reason to show himself to DT, but it was becasue he was an individual that God did not have to show himself to, I ihope DT does not take that as a shot. That expands to everyone who has no need of God revealing himself to them.
You, however, are saying that only the believers of God will see God becasue they are the only ones good enough to do so. You are saying non-christians are not good enough!

"Me reacting on this thread is not to scare u as u think i'm doing, i'm doing it to prevent u from infleuncing people with ur opinions about the world, just because ur confused . I think ur doing this, because, either ur aseind or ur looking for attention."
Wow, pretty blunt mocking if you ask me. Telling them they are living wrong because they are confused? Saying they are seeking attention? I think that was an insult.
"If u think it was my intention to mock them, it wasn't,"
What in the lying tongue of demons was that?

"U, my friend, have free will, but u are not using it well, ur practicully preaching the non-existance of God on this net to people, rember u are going account for it"
In this, you are judging them as you demanded that they not do to you. You are trying to protect your beliefs, while they do the same. And wait, what is this. Is that a subtle threat at the end? For one thing, how does that threat work when they might not even believe in the after life? Do you think Hell, damnation, or whatever religion holds for punishment might scare one who does not even believe? Why should some one be afraid of something they believe in, to them it is something that is not there.

"So, Stop, in the Name of Jesus, preaching bulshit to other kids on this net."
So you call what others believe in bull$1!+? I guess they were supposed to take that as a complement then, Stella? Oh, and again: "I respect everybody's choose of religion in life, but do not dare to judge mine"
I wonder if you get the hint yet.

"And don't think u'll not face any challenges about this thread, cause u've stepped on a lot of toas. "
What about you, Stella? What are you feeling right now about me for one. You never insulted me really, but hey, you asked and I showed you how you mocked people. Do you me now? Do you me now? Or or at me?
What about other members of the forum? If I am wrong, please tell me off and explain to me that I am wrong, because as far as I am aware, I am right. If I am right, you don't have to do anytthing at all.

Hi Elemental,
U probably thought you were right.
I went to church on sunday and guess what the preaching was about .
From you're point of view i'm mocking people that do not believe in God or have different religions. But i'm just doing my duty as a christian and i'm going to prove it too:

God said in the book of Ezekiel 33:3-6:
When He sees the enemy approaching, He sounds the alarm to warn everyone. If someone hears it, but pays no attention and the enemy comes and kill Him, the He is to blame for his own fault, because He paid no attention. If He paid attention, He could have escaped.
If, however, the LOOKOUT sees the enemy coming and does not sounds the ALARM, the ENEMY will come and kill those SINNERS, but I will HOLD the the LOOKOUT RESPONSIBLE for their DEATH.
This scripture simply means that WE as christians are the LOOKOUTS/WATCHMEN and the lookout sounding the alarm means that christian should preach the Word of God to the World to prevent them form spiritual death and spiritual condamnation.

That's why it's said in the Proverbs 19:17:
When you give to the poor, it's like LEANDING to the LORD and the Lord will pay you back:
"Giving to the poor" as it's said in this scripture doesn't litraully means the fisical poor, it means preach the word to the ONES that are spiritually POOR. A PERSOON WHO IS SPIRITUALLY POOR, is someone who the bible or God sees as someone who lack the word of God in his/her life. The thing about reading the bible, is meditating on it SPIRITUALLY, you shouldn't take everything litraully.
So if you compare the two scriptures, God is simply saying, we as christian have found the light, so we are therefore on the lookout to sound the alarm=the word of God, to warn those amongst us who have not yet seen the light. If we don't, God will hold us responsible, that means their blood are on our hands if we let them die in their sin.

Do you still think i'm mocking people, now .
If you have any doubts, you can check the quoted scriptures.

However if we as christians do not sound the alarm to warn everyone, they will, as they are discribed in Isaiah 14:9-11, die in the world. When they do, they will lie on a bed of MAGGOTS and will be covered with A BLANKET OF WORMS.

So as you see, i based all of my previous aguments on these scriptures. Do you still think i'm mocking people .
The purpose of me responding on this thread was to sound the alarm, so that i'll not be hold responsible. The Bible says in Proverbs that: ANY FOOL CAN START AN ARGUMENT, BUT IT'S UP TO THE WISE TO STAY OUT OF IT. But I didn't, because i have to respond to sound the alarm, so not, i'll have blood on my hands.
Emagine all the people you've come in contact with, without sounding the alarm to warn them before they died.

[b][i][u]This post is for the ones amongst us who want facts to believe in God .

Now, Elemental, if you think i mock people, then you wouldn't like to read your bible often .
You can pick up your bible, which i believe you have one, being a christian as you say, and check all the scriptures quoted.
I sound the alarm at the moment i responded on the thread and if i sound it too loud, then i'm not sorry at all. I know i've done my part.

Stella

There's a difference between spreading the Good Word and contemptfully telling us atheists, muslims and pagans are going to be in hellfire for all time.

Did you even read the quotes that I stated? If you did, then you are trying to find an argument around it by pasting over the past with a different kind of argument. You are not very good at it though.
I am wondering if you still have to find God in your life. You seem to be the prime example of what DumbTeen hates about those who follow God. In God's name did you insult and mock the members of this board.

IF YOU WANT TO WARN SOME ONE, FINE! BUT WHAT YOU DID NIS NOT WARNING THEM!

Did you see those quotes of your own fingers that typed them upon this thread? You mocked them by being a hypocrite and not allowing them to judge you while you judge them. You said unbelievers are not worthy. You told them that you felt obligated to stop them from talking about what they believed because you say that they were either confused or seeking attention. You said they were not using their free will properly.
"So, Stop, in the Name of Jesus, preaching bulshit to other kids on this net." ~Stella
In the very name of Jesus did you mock them by stating what they believed in was B.S.!

What you have done is not sounded an alarm. You shot people down because they were expressing their opinions! You were not the one who sounded the alarm nor were you the one who did not listen to the call. You are the enemy that came upon the people and struggled against them.

Did you see what you said? Is that what you think is warning people? And you dare ask me if I think you are mocking people? Not so much as an insullt, but as a matter that you should look into, I think you are kinda sick, in a self righteous sort of way.

Elemental,
ahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahaahaahaah,

It's seems like somebody knows that i'm right, otherwise you'll not get that angry hahahahahahahhihihihhiihhhiiihi.
If you think i'm sick, then you'll call Jesus the most sickest person who existed in the world. haahahahahaha, i still just can't get over you of all people, madam, i don't insult en mock people, that you are insulting and mocking me ahahahahahhahahaha.

If only you read bible, then you'll know the names God call those who refuse to believe in Him.

.


YOu say i'm mocking, i say i'm not, you say tomaato and i say tomato

When a person get angry in a debat, you know what it means, you've been debating for while, right?? So you tell me

Let me tell you, i'm not one of those christians who think they are righteous and holy. Because God said, NOBODY IS HOLY IN THE EYES OF GOD.
So, sick, i'm not at all, alright, gurl?????? Don't get angry



And if i still have to find God in my life, i don't think i'll be able to find those quotations in the bible

Stella