Problems with God - Page 2

Sorry about prolonging a dead discussion but could you answer me a question?

My mom is a major GOD believer. well when she didnt have a job and she had days off she wouldnt try to get a new job or anything she would just sit by the window all day long and read her bible.

She quite like seven different jobs because she was told to "stop humming" she said "I'm humming for my GOD so NO"
Little things like that. And my dad was working three jobs at one time and she wasnt even trying to help. Now that she does have a job even when she gets days off all she does is read the bible. Then she yelled at me for 3 minutes in front of people then said "NOW THAT I HAVE PUBLICLY HUMILIATED YOU DID YOU LIKE THAT? HUH HUH DID YOU?"
Although she doesnt realize that to my friends she just made herself look like an ass. Because of dishes.

Is that religion or obsession?

What should i do?

Well religion had nothing to do with her yelling at you. That was her being a mother. She is willing to sacrifice a job for her faith and will not stand for people to hold her down because of it, well that is certainly religion. By making herself familiar with the bible she is attempting to learn more about God she is attempting to get closer to him. Sometimes when we get so wrapped up in something that means a lot to us, even religion, we get a bit testy if we feel that it is not as fulfilling as we want, or if others don't seem to be as engulfed as we are. You're mother is living her faith by the bible which is a good thing but to a certain extent. In this day and age we cannot expect to live the way most would expect us to want to live by following what the bible, which was written nearly 2 millenium ago, in our current world. Don't get down on your mother for being religious but don't blame it on her religion either. Mother's make fools of themselves all the time with their nagging and yelling, it's normal and religion has nothing to do with that. Just be happy that your mother loves you, and that she has found something that makes her happy.

fireangel

Religion can bring people hope. Religion or God sometimes is a way for people to run away from their problems. They may be in a denial phase. I was in denial before it isn't a good thing. I came from a very religious family. Religion can be very unhealthy to the wrong person. My family can care less about me, they only care that I find God and read the bible. That is obsession, any obsession can be dangerous. I believe most of my family hates me. They want to make me their sacrifice to their God.

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Then she yelled at me for 3 minutes in front of people then said "NOW THAT I HAVE PUBLICLY HUMILIATED YOU DID YOU LIKE THAT? HUH HUH DID YOU?"
Although she doesnt realize that to my friends she just made herself look like an ass. Because of dishes.

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Sounds like she feels like you have publically embarraress her? As her humming, some hum to express their inner joy which can be irratating to others (because they don't) Don't really hum but I did try singing once but that was out of shear boredom. (cause I know I can't sing)

I think religion can deffinately overtake someone's life, if they are seeking inner happiness and reason in an unhappy and unreasonable age, the hole they are trying to fill cannot be filled with religion, only with their own happiness and reason. Yes this can come from finding God and the bible has many words of wisdom to empart on those seeking personal truth and faith. However, making other people unhappy will never help them come close to finding personal enlightenment. I have quoted this one many times, it is my ultimate guide to the bible and those seeking a Christian life:

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the prophets"(Mathew 7:12)

"How good and pleasant it is when brothers live together in unity!"(psalm133:1)

"For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness", made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ."(2Corinthians4:6)

I pray that your mother will again see the light of the Lord in her heart and give you the Mothers love that you so dearly deserve.

Love and Light in Jesus
Sorceress

I believe there isn't as many problems with God as there is with Christianity. I have no problem believing that God exists but I don't believe most Christians.

I am not blaming the dishes thing on god no sorry if that was what it seemed like i was doing. But she used to be REALLY nice and fare. Since she stuck EVERTHING TO GOD along time ago she has become grouchy with everything that is not just right or in the right place. And she doesnt see her forgeting things as a bad thing but she does get really mad when we do.

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I think that what needs to be understood here is that God exists, what is the point of a soul if it just disappears into the air after the body dies? Why would an old soul have to find a new baby's body to have a new shell just so that it could go through learning everything all over again? That doesn't make sense. In all questions of existence, God is the best and only logical answer.

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No, coming to a "conclusion" that you cannot explain or understand, instead of just admitting you do not know, then even devoting your life to and worshipping such an idea, while in general condemnation of those who do not, simply because you can't figure out the universe on your own, doesn't make sense.

I'm sorry Ironwood but I don't think I enjoy your badgering and constant mocking on my post. You are free to say what you wish but I ask you to please stop attacking my religion and my faith. thanx much

fireangel

Gee, I did an awful lot with just one paragraph, but I don't see how I attacked your religion. As a matter of fact, I don't see where your religion was even mentioned. In all actuallity that was a genuine statement of concern.

You sure did have a fairly strong reaction, are you sure you are not insecure about something?

Perhaps I've mistaken you, perhaps you would like to argue your case, maybe? Perhaps you could shed some light on just what you thought I meant, maybe point out what is wrong with my statement. Maybe you can point out what exactly I did to badger or mock. You realize that if I did mock you, even unintentionally, that you are indeed admitting to doing that which I described.

Or perhaps I'm being too civil, perhaps I should react like you and fulfill all of your accusations.

I don't appreciate you attacking reason and common sense with your paranoid superstition and mindless group think, avoiding debate on a debate forum in exchange for censored arguments sheltering you from any reality beyond that of your own comforting construction, or more accurately, assimilation.

Nor do I feel you nor others like you deserve a pass in my confronting your flawed logic and its delusional and hypocritically judgemental outcomes when I'm in a country, and a world, in crisis, and on the brink of world war four, in need of its citizens having a firm grasp of reality and the difference between fact and fiction, lies and deciet.

FYI, I don't exist or post for your enjoyment. That's just a perk, your welcome.

And your apology's acceptance is in the air. I don't think you really meant it.

not fireangel

I can fully appreciate and understand the feelings that come out of discussions like this, it is easy to become defensive and emotional when talking about matters of Faith. Firangel's faith is not in question here, he is entitled to believe in whatever he wants whether a Christian God, Buddhism or Wiccan ritual, its up to him, what upsets me is that people of faith shouldn't be made to feel their beliefs are a fiction and not worthy of human discussion. Ironwood you said: having a firm grasp of reality and the difference between fact and fiction, lies and deciet. Your reality is not the same as fireangel's reality, you both have completely different visions of the way the universe works. Upsetting each other is not the answer. The boy whose mother is searching for answers in her own way is another example, she is living in a completely different reality to her son at the moment at this is why they are clashing.

I would say try and see each side of the discussion from the person's point of view. Don't just say I don't believe it and I can't even believe I'm talking to someone who does believe it. Can you not take a step back and say, I understand where you are coming from, but I think a little differently and then agree to differ. Perhaps there would be less war in this world if people could have greater powers of empathy!

nice way to say it.
I was going to say something like
Everyone has a point of view so we all se things differently. How do think wars start. Point of view. Mostly over religion. So why do we have religion? Religion is something you CHOOSE to believe in. DO NOT DESTROY OTHERS DREAMS HOPES AND BELIEFS. Stick to your own or try and look at things from a different point of view.

Hello Zyphon, my name is Awakendwraith. Firstly, it is important when talking to someone to do it in a way that you know they will accept and understand, that means that when you reply in a post taht you should do it in a way that they will not feel offended and take seriously. When you use a tone, an on-line tone, it is important for you to not use "CAPS" because as all people know, this implies that you are yelling at someone. I believe the reason why you decide to.. un-knowingly (see where i put un-knowingly rather than using a much harsher word like blindly or ignorantly?) use such a tone is part of the reason why some people decide to tear other people's religion down, and I believe that those are the people that youa re speaking of when you ask them not to take someone's faith away, and not to start a war because of it. I would personally suggest using a more friendly and informative tone when speaking on-line, considering as you do not have body language to back yourself up with.

My view on your previous post goes a little like this... What if someone make the choice of religion with no true intention of finding bliss and peace, but through a follow the leader type situation? OR if someone chooses out of fear? If someone just follows someone into a religion, would itnot be a good idea to show that person that they may be wrong? Tell me what you think about that. And, if someone chooses those hopes and dreams because it is all they have left, is it not a good idea to take that away from them? Let me know what you think about that aswell.

That is because everyone seems to choose to ignore the point as well the debate.

What kind of people tell others not to question someone or express dissagreement on a debate forum?

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Religion is something you CHOOSE to believe in.

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And I choose to remind believers of that very fact, but they tend to insist that it is not just a chosen belief but that it is a fact and anything to the contrary is both wrong and should be censored and or deemed evil, illegal, what have you.

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people of faith shouldn't be made to feel their beliefs are a fiction

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Unless it is true. If they claim their beliefs to be of a historical and factual nature, especially on public debate forums, then the entire arsenal of critical thought and scientific method have all the right in the world to expose such beliefs and claims as what they are, beliefs and claims, not necessarily fact, therefore, possibly fiction.

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DO NOT DESTROY OTHERS DREAMS HOPES AND BELIEFS.

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Don't be absurd, dreams and hopes are only destroyed by realizing reality does not support them.

Would you blame gravity of ill intent for destroying so many's dreams to fly?

If our beliefs are destroyed by mere words then perhaps we should reavaluate them.

Our beliefs are the foundations of our actions, if our beliefs are wrong or misguided, then so too might our actions be.

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Your reality is not the same as fireangel's reality, you both have completely different visions of the way the universe works.

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Wrong, to the best of all of our knowledge we all live in exactly the same reality and universe, under the same structural laws and physics. Our perception or vision of them is irrelevant to its independant factual actuality and its systems of operation.

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Upsetting each other is not the answer.

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Facing reality can be upsetting. Living in denial is not the answer. Hiding behind rituals of sacrifice to, in selfish desperation, try to save your soul from threats YOU CHOOSE to believe in, is anything but sensible, let alone righteous.

The irony and hypocricy of your "arguments" is that all of you preach acceptance to differing ideas and beliefs to defend religious ideals that do not.

There is nothing wrong with trying to have a relationship with the creator of the universe, but claiming that what you believe is fact because you believe it, is quite debatable.

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Wrong, to the best of all of our knowledge we all live in exactly the same reality and universe, under the same structural laws and physics. Our perception or vision of them is irrelevant to its independant factual actuality and its systems of operation.

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I genuinely understand what you are saying and your argument is sound to a certain extent. Yes of course we all live in the same physical universe with the same structural laws and physics I'm not that dumb, however within that we are all individuals with individual life experiences, histories, emotions and yes dreams. You don't seem to like the fact that people have dreams and hopes and fantasies and faith in something other than cold hard facts. My reality is absolutely not the same as your reality, I do not live in your body in your mind in your country and lets face it I'm a different sex entirely (oh my God we're a different species lol) .

Our perception and vision of the universe is entirely relevant and in my way of thinking is the whole crux of it.
If we all lived in the same reality we might all be murderers and rapists and wife beaters, I know for a fact their reality is very different to mine. And what about writers who practically live inside their own imaginations? Come on, I think you are the one being naive if you trully believe that nice, neat, well ordered, empirical, observable universe that you are talking about is the only way to look at the world around us. We are imaginative, thoughtful, intelligent beings who can conceive of what is not observable, or do you think thats rubbish too?

As for facing reality, well whose reality are we talking about mine or yours? Just because there is war and greed and murder and torture in this world, doesn't mean I have to accept that as the only reality, my reality is equally as relevant and it includes God, whether you believe it is fact or not. Human kind makes its own reality, mine has a future and I hope some of my reality will rub off on my children.