futility of romantic 'love' - Page 2

This is a very interesting conversation. I enjoy it.

Spicesoup- When I said "Forgiveness" It had to be after he realized that pursuing "pleasure" will NOT bring him lasting happiness. There is a HUGE difference between Happiness and Pleasure. He must stop focusing on Pleasure and focus on what will bring him true happiness in his life. Lusting after Porn of Fantasies or other women will never satisfy him. It will always leave him wanting more.

Happiness is so much different. It is so much deeper. Only when he stops trying to satisfy desires that will ultimately end in dissapointment will he be able to truly appreciate what he has in his life right now- You.

If he never realizes this, then you must indeed move on. Im sorry to hear that you are going through this, but sadly this is how our society has been taught to think. Its all wrong. But all men are not like this, and I would like to think I am not one of them. Decius seems to be a great guy also.

Whether you relationship ends or not, remember this. You are never to old to be happy. Never give up! and Never Surrender!

Much <3 Zach.

his fantasy flashes are involuntary. he takes no action to realise those fantasies. yet, involunatry as they may be, they exist. i have never been witness to any behavior on his part that implies pursuit . but through our chats which sometimes last for 8 hours a day - i have discovered these demons.
so i would not say that there is a pursuit of pleasure, while there is definitely a pursuit of happiness which he feels with me. he has done a lot, to try and hold on to us.
and yet, i cannot come to terms with the 'male' hardwiring bit.
to me, even one flash of fantasy or momentary desire for another woman is a breach of desire for me. and why should i want to be with a man who wants not just me but also a harem ? why should he have to "settle" for me even in that singular moment of desire when his being is brawn to the centrefold of playboy ? let him go and get her. i am not a substitue for things he cannot get. nor am i needy enough to accept this. there IS an either or. unfortunately i cannot see it any other way.
this is clearly a result of ego. and tho' many philosophies see the ego as a problem, i think it is a defense mechanism. and i HAVE tried to acquiese the ego. yet if it keeps coming up, then this is an inbuilt hardwirign as well. just as his maleness is.

and abotu not surrendering i don't know if there is energy left. this episode has made me question, not just whats between him and me, but also the nature of man-woman relationships which seem futile.

yes there are other men too. but even in this forum, we are not able to arrive at any better conclusion than that which i started with. so if romantci relationships are indeed futile then whats next ?

sure maternal happiness exists, social service happiness exists, filial responisbilities give happiness, achievement brings that too.

but NONE of these is as fulfilling and as anchoring as romantic happiness. so to continue to live, knowing fully well the futility of that, is like living a very sad and very very compromised living.

before this relationship and the analysis it brought, i had the advantage of naivete on my side - i cud dream and hope and look for fulfilment thru romantic love. now that the object of my search - appears to have been proved to be a mirage by fundalmentals of nature, there is no more search. i am in a static place.

and currently contructing how to live out the rest of my days carrying out the responsibilites i have ti the children i created.

just day to day existence with day to day activities.

no more quest for happiness.

seen intense and infinite happiness and also seen its fragility and felt frauded by its mirage-like quality.

so am tired.

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his fantasy flashes are involuntary. he takes no action to realise those fantasies. yet, involunatry as they may be, they exist. i have never been witness to any behavior on his part that implies pursuit . but through our chats which sometimes last for 8 hours a day - i have discovered these demons.

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For me, I used to have these type like fantasies. Involuntary and voluntary. I cannot speak for all of mankind nor for your husband, but I assure this: These fantasies can stop.

I no longer suffer from this. It has come through realizations of many different things in my life and I feel free. Thats about all I can say. Im sorry you seem to have lost hope of happiness. Hope is all we have sometimes. I wish the best of luck for you. <3 Zach.

u r 19. an dyou stopped as a result of realisations.
he is 49. and has lived this life for the past whatever years with sanction from his first wife.
the need for control has never been felt up until now.
and its probably hard to enforce control on soemthing like this for him at this age, after having indulged in it for nearly double your lifetime ( assuming he started at 14 - thats 35 years of fantasizing ! ). it is foolish for me to hope for such a funadamental change.

and u r right - hope is all we have. btu when even that is lost - all we have is futility !

I Understand that he is 49 and I am still Very Young. I just refuse to give up hope. If you give up now, your life is over even though you could still have 40 years to live. I hope you can find some way to solve your problems.

it takes training and discipline to give up hope.

once u surrender hope, u accept futility. the problem ceases to be a problem - it just becomes an environmental condition. like the weather.

existence replaces life. zero struggle. zero pain. zero fluctuation in emotional states.

vestiges of hope remain with me. with intense thinking someday these may be killed.

and then i will live 'happily' ever after !

Elie Wiesel:
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.

and indifference is death. death meted out with every breath taken. relentlessly. mercilessly. forced to stay conscious. yet shutting out all stimuli to the soul.

I guess Mars has built men through a different light...

Guys are visual creatures they are, i mean arent we all?? If a meal is not presented in way in which it looks apealing would we eat it? The truth is we all at times judge a book by its cover well, we ask ourselves if the book is of our liking, whether its a book that you would ever look into or simply because of the layout or colour...

Ma boyz here at uni are very visual creatures, it doesnt matter whether they are with anyone or not they will look at other women and oogle at their goods at times. I mean women do the same, we look... And in both categories we love something that looks good, smells good and feels great.. but this isn't to say that all women and men are playahz... all im saying is that if something looks good then it must or perhaps taste good.. i know my boiz would be saying hell yeah to that.. lolol!

Women we have to accept it men are visual creatures.. hehe.. big hugzzz all.. this is fuuun!

We all may be visual creatures, but to openly lust after others without control means one thing. You are not disciplined in here. (points to my head) Its that and/or you don't realize you need to be disciplined. People don't see this, especially in our world today.

Spicesoup- Can you give me a very specific example of what is going on with your husband? I have alot of personal stories I may be able to relate to this.

Also, if you like to read I would HIGHLY suggest checking this book out. "The Art of Happiness" it is truly an amazing book.
<3 Zach

zach,
i think with my man its a matter of not realising the need to be disciplined

his explanation is that what he has with me is way different and way greater than pure lust. and therefore i shud not feel threatened at all when there is a flash of fantasy.

he used to get playboy until recently - sanctioned by the first wife. he makes open statements wanting to be with celebrities and with other women who are known to him. he says its in jest. but the fact that the thought occurs tells me that this is no jestful stuff. sure its not serious, because there are enuff opportunities ot go after the women he knows if he really wanted to. but he does nothing to convert a fantasy into reality even in the situations he can actually throw bait and try. insofar as his voluntary actions are concerned he is faithful.

what i cannot handle is that i am inadequate to anchor him in every way.

if he still fabtaisizes about x, y and z then he shud go for it. i am no one to restrict his action. and neiother am i with so little self concept that i can watch him go after someone else even in tought. why wud i tolerate it ?

nothing on earth is worth this . we have a great connection in every other way. but its still not worth it.

if there is to be a relationship, and it cannot be one-to-one then its a harem, and i cannot be part of it.

and if all men are built like this then too bad for me.

for if all men, do fantasize about other women, then why shud it be restricted to fantasy ? if a guy fantasizes about a woman the only reaosn to not go ahead with it in reality wud be that the woman he fantasizes about wont allow it or the woman he is committed to might leave him. from his own point of view if he fantasized then he is happy and willing to make it reality. IF ONLY there were no consequences...

so who am i to restrict a man who is gone already ?

let him go to those women. i can live a solitary life. who needs men when my role with him is that of a piece of a jigsaw like harem ?

if i give devotion, i dont accept promiscuity. and too bad for me if i dont get devotion. i can go up the himalayas and renounce this entire model that the world has adopted.

and promiscuity occurs whether there is a physical pentration or a clinton like escapade or even in just thought, the man desires another.

it is the promiscuity of the mind that is paramoint. the body is just a slave to that which the mind indulges in.

I just found out my bestfriend and my ex who just recently left me 1 1/2 months ago like each other and going to date.

Fuck life.

Im with you spicesoup. Except I do not fantasize about other women.. I am a person of morals and integrity.. unlike everyone else I know.

the minority always suffers.

there is a distinction between the relationship and the feeling of love. the love can continue even after the relationship has ended.

and similarly there is a difference between feeling the pain and feeling hurt. and pain is easier to bear than hurt.

and u r right. life is all screwed up. who knows what keeps us all here !

"and u r right. life is all screwed up. who knows what keeps us all here !"

Perhaps this is a little off-topic, sorry for that. Have you ever thought that maybe the one thing that keeps us all here is the one thing we can't have? The one thing that doesn't exist. Perfection.

that sounds true.

the classic story about the frog turning into a prince is actually the other way around. that once u kiss your prince - he has found what he wanted and turns into an ugly frog immediately after he has achieved what he waited for , for so long !

sounds so true !

but coming back to your statement

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that maybe the one thing that keeps us all here is the one thing we can't have? The one thing that doesn't exist. Perfection

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its not necessarily true. when i look back there has been a period of complete perfection, which not only existed, it felt like that was the destination i had been longing for. there was contentment and fulfilment and no more restlessness in my soul. and it did engage me and keep me right where i was. it did not bore me and drive me to seek new stimulation. but then maybe women r built differently.