GOD and goofy belief systems. - Page 4

i do belive that there are better systems out there than democracy... it's just that humanity is not ready for it yet

okay... tired now... going to sleep... bye

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Simply stating the same thing over and over again does not make you any more right,

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Nor does it make you right. But the evidence is there. Homosexuality causes major rifts in society and ultimately creates a very unstable enviroment. But if you choose to remain ignorant until the problem becomes irreversible I understand.

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doesn't JESUS say in the new testament that "love thy neighbor as you love me"? it doesn't say love thy neighbors who are just like you

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Indeed but homosexuality is a SIN and therefore it must be dealt with. We must also love murderers and other criminals but that doesn't mean we should embrace and accept their behaviour.

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and often times these words resulted in the deaths of many innocent people

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Ironic that the words "bodily destruction serves no purpose in it" would cause death...

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. just calling someone satan because they're not "just like you" doesn't make you any better than they are

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I wasn't suggesting that we 'call' people Satan. The whole point is that we (as Christians) are in a war with him and killing people will further his cause before furthering God's.

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. I have no doubt that the people who started the crusades interpreted the bible in much the same way as to prove their point

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Interesting as the Bible does promote the correction of homosexuals and does not in anyway suggest that mass murder is a good idea. There is no comparison One idea comes from the Bible one does not so how can you say they come from the same source?

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just the fact that in a 2000 year-old religious work it says that homosexuality is a "defilement of nature" doesn't make it so

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It would seem that all your points include the phrase "because you think.. doesn't make it so." well that is a pretty lame supporting statement why not come up with a real arguement? Basically all you have told me is that you do not believe me and so that makes me wrong.

back to the topic
why do we seek reward and punishment?
the easy way out is because we are all egotistical pricks.
a less pessimistic approach would be to blame our ability to adapt and understand, which fails us time and time again. in failing we reach for things like
luck, fortune, religion, science, politics. anything that can answer for us essentially.

its a hell of alot easier to carry on believing someone is watching us thinking 'wow, nice job' instead of being comftorable enough with the improvement of our human race.

people tend to forget that we are all in the same and we dont look out for each other like we should. rewards from our good deeds do not happen directly back in form of compensation or emotional gratitude. the idea of self-fulfillment reghardless of the means is our number one priority. the means is usually stepping on other people, which in turn burns into there mind that if someone else does it then why not me.

it follows the same vicious cycle the rest of society does. we are 2000 years buried under our own ignorance and it just keeps adding, with every generation of money hungry, sefl righteousness, hypocritics who are taught that thinking and preaching change, when the truth is it is not. the only way to change is to act upon our meditations.

I agree Navin that humanity is currently digging its own hole deeper with successive generatoins. I also agree that humans, in our wisdom or folly, have created these handy explanations for how the world works.

Ok now then...

ethereal, the only reason homosexuality causes rifts in society is because people are trying to stick their noses into other people's business. If we just stopped caring about what people do in their own homes that is within the bounds of moral code (i.e. they are not raping, killing, torturing, or otherwise acting without the consent of their partner) then we wouldn't have this rift in society. Just because a portion of the population doesn't agree with another portion of the population that happens to want to use a microwave instead of a stove in their kitchen doesn't mean that we should make laws banning microwaves from the home. The same goes for couples. If two guys want to live together and are in love with eachother, and their next door neighbor's don't agree with that, that's no reason to try and create a law that prohibits those two men from legally binding themselves to eachother. Nor is it a reason to deny either of those guys jobs in the workforce. My point is that if christians weren't making such a big deal out of homosexuality right now, there wouldn't be a rift in society over it.

As to the interpretation of the bible, you are right. It doesn't condone mass murder. However, it does say that any non-believer is in unclean person until they are converted. It is this saying that the initiators of the crusade used to motivate the soldiers. It made perfect sense for the time period. If they won't convert, skewer them and get their sinfull souls off this planet. I know that's not the mentality now, but that's what it was like during the crusades. If you want proof of it, just take a look at the formation of the Jesuits. Missionaries sent off to every corner of the known world with the message, "Convert, or I'll call in the army."

(I appologize for not directly quoting the Bible but I don't have one on hand to quote from.)

So if killing people furthers Satan's cause why are there so many holy wars? There's holy wars agains gays, muslims, and about every other group or idea that christianity doesn't whole heartedly support. It's odd that a religion so intent on living in harmony with your fellow man is one of the two most warmongering religions in the world. If killing people serves satan, than holy wars must be like a birthday present for him.

True, it is ironic that the words, "bodily destruction serves no purpose in it," cause so many deaths. Though, the entire phrase itself does not cause deaths, the people who believe it overlay it onto every situation, causing every battle to become a spiritual one. While they may view the battle as spiritual that doesn't make the bullets and swords any less physical or capable of doing damage.

Sorry for the length of the off topic section....

ON the topic however, no, it doesn't matter in the least what happens after you die because guess what? Your dead. It's not like you can do anything about it, so why worry?

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If we just stopped caring about what people do in their own homes that is within the bounds of moral code

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What about the places that have laws against sodomy?

The rift I was referring to is not the obvious one but the underlying rift that will ultimately be the fall of our civilization. This rift is caused by allowing children to be born without proper parenting (this applies just as much to heterosexuals as well).

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So if killing people furthers Satan's cause why are there so many holy wars

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Because a Holy war does not have to be fought with earthly weapons. Life in and of itself is a Holy war for Christians but I have yet to go to a church service with a rifle.

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While they may view the battle as spiritual that doesn't make the bullets and swords any less physical or capable of doing damage

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But the crusades were not a spiritual battle, it was intended to rid the world of Muslims by death not spirit. Even if they thought of it as spiritual they were wrong. Spiritual warfare usually goes on constantly and unnoticed by most.

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no, it doesn't matter in the least what happens after you die because guess what? Your dead. It's not like you can do anything about it, so why worry?

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Then by extension if it doesn't matter what happens after you die then it also does not matter what you do before you die.

Laws against sodomy in the private home between concensual partners are just as limiting, unconstitutional, and downright stupid as laws against intercorse in the private home between concensual partners. Laws against sodomy in public? GREAT! I'm all for those, and the same laws that make intercourse in public illegal. As for the rift, if it's a matter of children being raised with the proper parenting, then why are christians specifically targeting homosexuals? Why not target the dead beat dads, and the drugged up mothers who beat their kids? That seems to be a whole lot more productive to me than going after a gay or lesbian couple who love their children and raise them well. My point is, that if the parents aren't doing anything to abuse or neglect their children, why does it matter if both parents happen to be of the same gender?

I will grant you that holy wars don't have to be fought with weapons. Sadly that is what seems to end up happening. The weapons aren't always swords and guns though. Most recently, the weapons have been of the economic and philogical kind. The weapons of todays holy wars are the government, the constitution, and descrimination in the job market. Through words and throwing around it's considerable political and economic influence, the christian faith is wageing holy wars on those that don't agree with them.

Yes they were wrong to take religious beliefs and turn them into a war. However, we are doing the same thing now. So are the muslims. It all started with the crusades, this thought process that leads to, "If we kill them, God will thank us." And I recognize that you might not think this way, but this seems to be the rationalization our leaders, and theirs, are using at the moment.

Seeing as how I'm not dead yet, I honestly don't know what will happen after I die. However, I know that you really can't do much of anything about your death after the fact. But if you make that extension and say, "Well then it really doesn't matter what I do when I'm alive if the slate gets wiped clean," I would have to say it does matter. Not because of any reward you might get in the afterlife, but because there are consequences in life for all acts you commit.

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why does it matter if both parents happen to be of the same gender?

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Because this is yet another form of destroying marriage. Homosexuals will not consider that their actions have a greater effect on society as a whole. If two men or woman are allowed to marry then what's to stop one man and two woman or two men and one woman? What about the age of consent it is unconstitutional so why can't a 60 year old woman marry a 13 year old boy? That being the case why can't father marry daughter? You may laugh now but believe me this is already starting to happen. There are people who are trying to prove that incest is actually beneficial.

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Through words and throwing around it's considerable political and economic influence, the christian faith is wageing holy wars on those that don't agree with them.

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Yes while evolutionists wage wars with those who do not agree with them. These wars will always happen as long as there is more than one way of thought.

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Not because of any reward you might get in the afterlife, but because there are consequences in life for all acts you commit.

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But what of them? Some consequences good some bad but in the end you just die so no big deal right?

K I'm going to go out on a limb here and try to define marriage in the simplest terms possible. One person falls in love with another person. Person A courts Person B for however many months. Then Person A asks Person B if it would be ok to legally spend the rest of their lives together. Person B says sure and they have a ceremony of whatever kind, small with almost no one, or really really big with each person's entire hometown invited, whatever. So great, they love eachother and they can now legally share responsibility of eachother and live happily and so on. Now take those same two people, same feelings, same minds, same desires, and make them both of the same sex and it's suddenly not so hunky-dorey anymore? Where am I missing the shift from love being a good thing to love being a bad thing.

As to the age thing. In our country anyway the age of adulthood is 18. This means that until you are 18 your parents basically get to tell you what to do. That issue is a whole different problem in itself that I'm not going to go into on this thread. I know people will get crazy ideas, such as the incest one, but they would have those ideas anyway. I guess my point here is that yes, there are boundries that have to do with age, blood relations, and number of people, and we will have to probably deal with them eventually. But is it really the right thing to do to deny people who are in love, aren't doing anything that breaks the law, and are perfectly normal people the chance to share their hapiness with someone else because we don't want to face the problems that people in the future will cook up?

I happen to agree with you on the fact that this kind of war will exist as long as people choose not to agree to disagree, but that doesn't make it a good thing on either side.

On this last part I'm gonna fall back on instinct. It is natural animalistic instinct to survive and live freely. This works both ways and as thinking, concious humans, which I hope everyone here is, we balance what we could do against what would happen if we did do. Thus we check against the consequences and, if we're thinking, we make the most appropriate choice for the situation. I hope that made sense....

the bibles problem with homosexuality is it inhibits the only meaning of life
to expand the kingdom of heaven.
you cant expand withoutthe ability to bear children, that is our job. to multiply and fill this earth

err meaniong, i should say our goal in life, accoridng to the bible

Yeah it would make sense then to be against it..... if the world wasn't already faced with an overpopulation and hunger problem. Would it really be all that bad to slow down our species birth rate a little? At least until our food production catches up with our reproduction?

agreed but it still contradicts the bibles goal, which i dont think you can get around if you have that faith.
if your homosexual and believe in god, just pick a different faith.
haha seems weird but what else ya know.

maybe if you take that part of the bible literally yes. I have several good friends who are openly gay and lesbian and are happily Christian. And some of them even have *GASP* Civil Unions together. Imagine that huh? Oh and another thing. None of them have burst into flames in the sanctuary nor have they been excomunicated or whatever.

i dont have a problem with it, i was simply telling you why the bible does not condone homosexuality.

So what if it doesn't? should we judge a person's worth based on a 2000 year-old religious work? Society changes, so why are we still using a 2000 year-old system of judgement? we got past slavery, stoning people to death, and burying our daughters alive, so why can't we get past this? I'm sure everyone here disagrees with the practice of stoning people to death for being unfaithfull, but we agree with discrimination against gays?

It's a bigoted interpretation of a 2000 year-old book, nothing more.