Is There are real right and wrong?

Do you believe there is really such a thing as a universal right and wrong? Or is it all just a system that we all have been programmed to believe?

the only rule i really go by is to try to avoid causing pain to others. everything else i think is relative.

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wraith do you feel justified by saying that? lol

I noticed that your new quote says "I don't think people seem to see how much they try to justify their way of life."
Which is probably why you had to add that little
"all justification" at the end.. you seem to be in a state of mind
where you just came up with a new theory and you put it to every possible situation that you can think of.. just cause we justify ourselves doesn't mean that there isn't a right or wrong

justification doesn't really have a place in the question of right or wrong

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There IS a universal right and wrong.... both right and wrong are dependent on the "you"....personal right or wrong... and that in itself is universal to the "you"....to every person there is a right or wrong, it may not be the same for everybody but whether a right is right for you and not for me it's still a right!.. and vice versa.....

Wraith is also right....because seeing that right or wrong only depends on the "person".....if you lose that "person" then you see neither right nor wrong, but all your actions are made in love, and harmonical precision.....On something like killing somebody...You could say that it's wrong because a life was taken, then you would say that the person has evil intentions for doing something like that....As soon as you get that mind frame you start seperating yourself from the individual... when you do that you lose a part of yourself.....each death occurs for a reason believe it or not....and if a murderer was allowed to run loose he would kill whoever is in his path until the regulation of nature has resumed its path then he will die..

Most minds shun the idea of inaction.......inaction is the greatest power though because that's where freedom is attained........disagree?

you guys are saying there isnt an absolute right are wrong implying that that cliam is wrong.. isnt this a paradox?

(i didnt read the measages yet.. but im assuming thats what you guys said.. and to those that siad it then isnt it a contraditciton?.. theres an absloute right or wrong to any claim!!! (i guss thats specific for an area people etc.. at a time.. like i am ..waving my hand frantically right now screaming.. i can say i mean write that its absoltle wrong!!! (even tho one can be skeptical of so much)

very good patape, once agian contradicting ourselves

yea..lol.. unless somebody wants to say were talking about morals only.. please argue back

i believe it was implying morale.

so yes, in that case...what are your thoughts on that?

Don't we make up our own morals based on what we have been through?
So how can we say that someone is a virtue?
Morals are another one of those subjective to the knower sort of things.

indeed..

but if there was in fact a universal Right and Wrong, how would you know it...by believing you determine whats right and wrong?


How can you say Right and Wrong vary for different people...when your only saying that peoples opinions of whats Right and Wrong vary.


If in fact there is a Universal Right and Wrong, it would not exist in your eyes...because that is what you choose to believe.. You've decided to govern yourself,...and believe there is no ultimate Right and Wrong. So by doing this, any thing you see as a failure...or an accomplishment, Right or Wrong, will not apply to anyone else. Your accounts will not justify your actions, because you choose to believe there is no universal Right or Wrong. limited only by yourself, your opinions are all that govern you.


and as wraith so brilliantly put it, " an opinion, as any enlightened person should know, is useless in universal truth and or constants"(including universal Right and Wrong).

alright ekimup I get what you'r saying.. I'll try to not contradict my own thoughts agian..

in my very effortful attempt to define morality I discover that we reference to an external authority..
for ex. parallel questions like: "do my parents approve of this action because it is right, or is it right because my parents approve of it?".. or "does the state forbid this activity because it is wrong, or is it wrong because the state forbids it?"..

then our actions become right or wrong solely because of the authority's approval or disapproval its choice, then has no rational foundation.....

if we can't ever know a universal right or wrong then why "waste time" on it? (lol got to be careful of what I say) it is useless to dispute over things we don't know of..sorry if my attributions were not made clearly (i think they were..) but plz try to understand them..

the only two ways an "area" of my brain currently sees it is that tif there was an absolute right or wrong amung all people (at least at 1 time) is that if theres some "god" figure who has them exist over everyone regarldess of their subjective views (and presumbly most of not everyone has common feekling of what right or wrong) (depends on position to)but anyway.. and the other way would be if everionne ffeels the exact same way everone welse does right now and time doesnt exist (in actual sesne.. ill think about that after actually) so you cant say theres no ablsote right or wronf in myself so everone too.. no no time.. now how you feel is everyting including time notion of other feelings...

i just realized iprobly didnt make sense on my first post here cause i dont think you guys were saying there isnt an absoulte right or wrong clearly.. or maybe yous weres abit..

generally, in our society..we're ruled under a democracy.

..so majority decides our governments leaders.


Now because we do this, we will never know if our laws do in fact fall under an existing, universal Right or Wrong. But we do this, assuming its for the best.

Taking the word "best"..and admitting there to being a universal Right or Wrong..makes it another opinion. Regardless if its decided by majority or not. So our tactic is hoping that majority can grasp truth, morale, and justice in their true forms. And because our nation is so diverse, consisting of many people with many accounts.. to help justify their beliefs. Then our nation is clearly, creating the best form of governing known to man.

Its a sad thing to overlook our minorities, but if we didnt... our democracy would crumble.

..elections couldnt be held



"if we can't ever know a universal right or wrong then why "waste time" on it?"

if we can waste our time on it, it must exist.
and who says we cant ever know it?