Is There are real right and wrong? - Page 4

oh, and just because a majority believe it, does not make it truth, everyone believed the world was flat, save one (one mans opinion), so your single person or persons (split personality?) does not fit that scenario.

trawets...i never stated the world was round.

All i've been saying was that in order to not limit ourselves or others to our own personal opinion, we must follow a standard that surpasses it.


Your practically making my point for me.


Maybe your forgot that an opinion means nothing. An opinion always has an alternate perspective, this is what makes it an opinion.

Truth is what is. Whether we see it, know it, understand or believe it. An opinion exists..solely as that. An opinion.

Which can only limit our perspective on truth.




and if we desire to know truth to our fullest abilities..we must follow a standard that surpasses opinion and works according to truth.


No man can tell you if your Right or Wrong, he can only state evidence(discovered by his limited perception) that supports his own "opinion" in opposition to your own.


If you refrain from bias perspective and personal opinion, you can justify your conclusion In that, you didnt limit yourself with opinion-which in turn permits you to know more truth.

Convincing becomes most easy when the person your attempting to convince, sustains their beliefs on evidential support. ..

given that you havent limited yourself with opinion.

ekimup, you stated......
"which is why we require a standard that surpasses a single person or persons opinions of truth. In order to aquire more truth, which in turn allows us to act accordingly and justifiably with the rest of existence." The way I see it is truth is truth regardless of who believes it, the majority does not dictate truth, truth is relative to the standard you use, be it the Bible, the satanic bible, the book of mormon, scientology, yada, yada, yada. Until you define your standard, your analogies are weightless, when you say "universal truth", what is that exactly? I must understand your definition before I draw conclusions. Majority does not make it right, or truth. many women/men have proven that over the years. What is your "universal truth"?

"truth is relative to the standard you use,"


your opinion of truth..is relative to the standard you use.

..which is why you must rid yourself of opinion.


"Majority does not make it right, or truth. many women/men have proven that over the years. What is your "universal truth"?"

..this is my point trawets.

Because a single person is not included in majority..doesnt mean they are Right..or Wrong. Just because majority believes or doesnt believe something..doesnt mean they are Right or Wrong.

So if you wish to grasp Truth in a fuller form, than you must use a standard which surpasses opinion.

I believe if you did infact understand my point-i wouldnt have to be explaining this again to you.

Universal truth- is Universal truth. Its what is here, its what is there..its what is 300billion light years away.

So in order to not limit ourselves so extensively with majority, or minorities opinions(or allow their ideals of right and wrong effect/or fuel our opinions of right and wrong)
We must understand these are but opinions(including our own). So NEVER take ones opinion as more than what it is. Another interpretation of a perception. It isnt Right or Wrong. But right according to itself...which would not apply Universally.

So in order to better understand or to enforce universal truth-you follow a standard that wont limit yourself or others so extensively from it. By allowing your opinion(which is nothing more than that) to sway decisions and effect others within existence.

An opinion is niether Right or Wrong..it is correct(as wraith has stated) in its unfolding with the rest of existence. But because it is Not Right or Wrong(and you cant have one without the other) You can see niether of these with the standards set solely by your opinions.

If you saw Universal Wrong, you would know what was Right.

Universal Right and Wrong do exist. Because they permit the truth. Because we do the Right thing by not limiting ourselves from truth.(Limiting would only make it Wrong-or result in a negative effect... such as misrepresenting truth.) Because we exist among and within existence...and truth is all that exists.(visa versa).

So believing that Universal Truth goes only as far as our minds..is wrong. Because this is an opinion-and Truth would be most certain to prove it wrong.



Oh..and my use of the term "standard" in reference to surpassing opinion, is only used to assist in directing my point. A standard most usually is followed. It allows me to assist in allowing others to understand what i am saying. also, its a standard that surpasses many single.."opinionated" standards, so it can help us step-out of a single interpretation of a perspective, and allow us a fuller view of truth.

I use it in the diagnosis of Truth. Not as an opinion derived from such an evaluation... but an evaluation lacking an opinion and bias perspective. Standard refers to Universal Right or Wrong.;

i believe that there is a right and wrong because you have to be more right then wrong to get into heaven

Right and wrong constantly change with a person's development. Doesn't anybody remember the Heinz dilemma from freshman psych?

I think right and wrong is a question of ones own morals. Given, there are some things that are usually wrong, no matter who you are, or what you believe in, i.e. murder, rape, etc. But I agree with may day, peoples thoughts on right and wrong change with who they are, their upbringing, and how their lives develop.

i agree

What are morals? They are what your parents have taught you to be true. Such as not killing or not stealing. What do not do these because we were taught that they were bad. So then ask "Why" is murder wrong" Give me a logical sentence that says why it is. You will find that you can't. All you can say is that you "feel" it to be worng. Or in other words you "beleive" it to be wrong. But there is no logical statement that can say why it is wrong to kill. There is no right or wrong past what you "feel inside".

"Right" or "wrong" is all based on your perspective of things. What's "right" to someone is always seen as "wrong" to someone else. Of course, there are things that are seen as morally right or wrong, and those I think are what we are "programmed" to believe.

Exactly. We are no less "programmed" to beleive that killing is wrong. Everyone of us here had been taught from birth to beleive that killing is wrong, but no one can say exactly why it is.

I guess because in general, its just not nice to take someones life away from them. To deprive them of living. And to make who knows how many others sad and upset. But I do know what you mean...I guess theres just some things, such as murder, rape, etc....that are just "wrong" and thats the way things are....no reason for it, they just are. Know what I mean?

So then killing is wrong because "It makes others sad", and because it "deprives them of liveing". What then is wrong with makeing people sad, and what then is wrong with depriveing a person of life. Now don't get me wrong I wouldn't like some one to kill me, I find value in life as most people do. However there is nothing that logically states why it is wrong. We can say however that we feel that such things are wrong. And since the majority of people "feel" the same way we have written laws against them. Or in other words, Laws that man "feel" are right. But we have no proof.
It is not a question of right and wrong. It is a realization that the anger that consumes you before you feel like killing some one is irrelevant. It is nothing to kill someone. It doesnt' help you and it doesn't make you feel better. It is "pointless" to kill. Whatever reason one may have for murder can not really be worth while.
But alas we are but human. So so instinces arise like "killing to save your family". If we were of more than man the person that was attacking you wouldn't do it becasue it wouldn't be worth it. No matter the reason."

quote from mayday:

"Right and wrong constantly change with a person's development. Doesn't anybody remember the Heinz dilemma from freshman psych?"

hhaha but even tho peoples views on right and wrong change, that doesn't answer them universal question if there's a right or wrong in the first place.. i guess it depends on religion tho..

I agree that there is no "logical" way to state if something is right or wrong, I guess there just comes a point, in some things, where they just "are". Some things don't always have an explanation. They just "are". Whether it be the way us as humans have been raised/taught over time, or whatever the scenario may be. There isn't a logical answer, thats true. It just....is. lol.