To The SwiftBoat Vets For Truth

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I spent 14 years in the Navy but I didn't go to Vietnam. When I was a kid, our teachers wouldn't ask us to say the pledge of allegiance and if you dared to salute the flag someone would kick the shit out of you. We hated our country, but we loved the Vietnam veteran. Because he went to hell and came back, to us he was a hero. Those who died in Vietnam we pitied. The Vietnam vet didn't die for our country, our country killed them. We'd talk about a friend's brother who had received a court marshal because he tried to defend himself. We knew why we were in Vietnam, to keep the military contractors in business who bought the politicians. We called eachother brothers and sisters and talked about power to the people and made plans for Canada, but it all ended before I had the chance to burn my draft card. A riot in Chicago made me realize that if the people had the power our world would be complete chaos, we needed government. So in July 1977, I joined the Navy. I don't know how well you remember 1977; it was a much different world. If I met a Vietnam vet on the street who I loved and respected, he would threaten to kick the shit out of me, because I was dumb enough to volunteer for active duty. Those who never served, they would spit at you, throw eggs and bottles and call you names. Back in 1977, it was a lot nicer aboard ship. Aboard my first ship a quarter of the crew was, you guessed it, Vietnam Vets. They got out, couldn't stand it and came back in. The stories they would tell seemed unbelievable. A first class boats with his ear burnt off showed me a picture of his mother. "She's scared of me" *shrugging his shoulder* "Why not, I tried to kill her, she should have known not to wash all the dirt off my cover, it had memories." He was a nice guy, a good friend, bad temper.

Bad things happened in Vietnam, I didn't have to go there to know that. That does not mean that there weren't honorable men and that Vietnam had no real purpose, and if you were one of those honorable persons who volunteered and found virtue, I can understand your insult, but many however were drafted and had their souls crushed.

Kerry went to Vietnam and he came back, like all of you, he's my hero. He then protested to stop something that had to end. It may have been right, but it was done all wrong and lots of people were dying, patriotism was already dead, Vietnam had to end.


Did Kerry do everything right in Vietnam, or while protesting against the war. I doubt it, who was right back then? It was a different world back then. Today, children are saying the pledge of allegiance. Most all vets back then who earned madals in Vietnam would throw them out or keep them hidden. But now the Vietnam Vet can boast of the their service in Vietnam, and that's great.

"We had very serious disagreements among ourselves about the war, but the creed was that we never spoke ill of another veteran," said Chuck Searcy from Athens, Ga., who served in Vietnam from 1967-68 before joining the anti-war movement at home.

Kerry is a Vietnam Vet and he's running for president unlike Carter and Bush who never served their country, yet never objected to sending our boys all over the world. I'm voting for Kerry, and you should be proud that a Vietnam vet may now take the place of Commander In Chief.

Roger

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I joined Swift Boat Vets For Truth hoping that I could reason with them in their forum. After posting my timely post above I realized I meant to say Clinton and Bush not Carter and Bush. So I went back to edit my post and guess what? My IP address is banned from their forum.

Maybe they went to Vietnam like they claim, but they didn't go there to protect the Constitution from all enemies foriegn and domestic, because they don't even believe in it themselves.

If you visit their site you will not find any Vets who are for Kerry, because it's not allowed, but don't be fooled, the Vet I quoted from is for Kerry. There are lots of Vets, even from Vietnam who are for Kerry.

Roger - The Okcitykid

So where do you come up with this crap about Bush did not go to Vietnam. Did you know he was in the military at that time and if called up he would have went to Vietnam. It seems to me a lot of people think you had to be there for you to be called a hero but look at the men/women serving in Iraq today there are lots of them that are guard members so i guess you dont count them as being in the military now do u.

Kerry went there big damn deal he was there for 3 months got a few medals in order to get out ASAP and my point is all the men that was there that did things kerry would not have the balls to do and they did not get a medal and did not want one in fact they stayed over there longer then 3 months and did not want to return home till the war was over now to me thats what being a true Vietnam Vet is all about.

Bush Jr. never went to Vietnam, Bush Sr. took care of that. I think if anyone went to Vietnam for 3 months, it would be like three years, and that certainly is a lot more than never.

I call Guardmembers, Guardmembers. I call Guardmembers who went to Iraq unfortunate. And Mr. Bush who got to stay home using his fathers influence, a coward.

In the first place Bush is not a junior. Also did you know that Kerry also joined the Guard first and was called up? Whats not arguable is that Bush chose a Guard position that was far more dangerous than what Kerry chose.

And a coward is one that lies about his actions in war, shoots a Vietnamese in the back, flees the battle while leaving his own people stranded in the water and tries to get medals from a self-inflicted wound so that he could get an early release. A coward throws his medals away and then claims he never did so.

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John Kerry's Final Mission in Vietnam

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http://www.thehistorynet.com/ah/blkerryinvietnam/

Study first than talk

So you dont deny anything I wrote? Or are you just going to let someone else speak for you?

No I would say Kerry did not serve loyally in the Navy.

I would say Kerry was a coward who admitted to committing war crimes and broke military laws in order to get an early release. And then, while still serving as a member of the Naval Reserves, met secretly with the enemy on foreign soil. Which is why it is most probable that Kerry received a dishonorable discharge.

And Bush is a war-hero and patriot for serving (I mean, occasionally showing up) for the Air National Guard?

You I don't know if you could possibly be more biased McTex.

"I would say Kerry was a coward who admitted to committing war crimes and broke military laws in order to get an early release. And then, while still serving as a member of the Naval Reserves, met secretly with the enemy on foreign soil. Which is why it is most probable that Kerry received a dishonorable discharge."

This of course only being bad if Viet Nam was a just war to begin with and where war crimes were not common place like he was so adament about as well as many others. And people who think its bad to talk to people over fighting are fucking lunatics anyway. Sure, if he was conspiring (are you going to start talking conspiracy now?) against a Righteous America, then your point would have some merit.

So, how much do you trust Tricky Dicky and Henry Kissinger? They are the ones backing up your claims and info on Viet Nam.

Bush did not occasionally show up to his Guard services. In fact during his first 2 years he served more than most do and received so many hours that he had very little to fullfil during his last couple of years. His service has been highly documented and the undeniable fact is that Bush was honorably discharged.

Your right about one thing, his service has been highly documented, so much so that there are multiple conflicting reports, go figure.

What reports conflict? Certainly no military reports. All you have is accusations based upon hearsay and none of it is substantiated. But the ultimate arbiter is the military and they gave him an honorable discharge.

Did Kerry receive an honorable discharge? We simply don't know because he refuses to release those docs.

Yes we know that he got an honorable discharge because he's a Senator. I could find the proof - Chaney sent everyone to the site by accident. I always wondered if it really was an accident. But anyways - I am kinda angry at Kerry. He didn't fight as hard as he could have and gave up to soon. Lot of speculation as to why and I have my own ideas.

But there is no comparison. Bush got into the guard because of his Daddy, he could have volunteered like Kerry, but instead he stayed home and partied all night, smoking dope and drinking beers while his classmates were dieing in Vietnam. Kerry on the other hand volunteered to go to nam.

Some say that Mr. Bush became a born again Christian and turned from alcohol - but we're not sure about the drugs. So we'll forgive him for his drunken parties while his classmates were dieing, because Jesus did. They believe that Jesus saved him so that he could become president and fight for God's people.

I believe that Satan saved him from alcohol, (and once again, we're not sure about the drugs) so that he could make Mr. Bush president and start another Vietnam, because Satan wasn't finished yet.

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But however you look at it. Kerry went to Nam, Mr. Bush didn't.

I know I can't put this in words, but I'll try my best. Bush Sr led us into Desert Storm and you knew he was being guided by something more powerful than human, because Bush Sr had seen action and knew about war. Bush Jr hadn't and was less careful or caring, this causing many mistakes we are now blaming on Rumsfeld. You need to have someone who has seen action to lead you into action if you want it to work out right. And I'm sorry, I don't know how to explain it to you. Even in history, all successful commanders had seen action themselves.

Disclaimer: I believe in God, I don't believe in Satan. Iraq is not Vietnam. The Israelites are nice people, but all of us are the chosen people.

False documents, not hearsay, falsified documents, you are siding on an unresolved issue, much like Kerry's.

You are basing your information on hearsay as much as anyone else unless you held those documents in your hand. And Greg Palast claims to have done just that, and they were missing information, he said Bush scored a 25 with 24 being the cutoff.

And past even the documents missing information we had the CBS (I think) and their documents if I'm remembering correctly which was over this issue, and apparently another set all together which would probably be what you are referring to.

So yes, military documents that are conflicting. Its not unheard of especialy in high profile cases with government connections.

And about war crimes, do you think it a crime or illegal or wrong for soldiers to disobey unlawful orders, which is what a war crime is, like killing civilians torture etc.

Its not, its actually their duty to do so. And don't be surprised when they are treated like criminals anyway.

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Would you say Kerry served loyally in the army?

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I don't even believe Mr. Kerry thought he served honorably. He made a mistake flashing his purple hearts around, it was a political thing, a bad mistake. Very few who went to Vietnam are proud,. Tthose who pretend to be proud either never saw action or are lieing about there own service there and would prefer that people like Mr. Kerry, who told the truth, would keep their mouth shut.

Vietnam was bad, worse than Iraq. Because of technology, soldiers having cell phones and such, the brass is not able to get away with the things they got away with in Vietnam - Enough said, thanks for asking though.