If there's a god, why is there evil? - Page 3

There are a lot of posts here - I don't read to fast so I haven't read them all. So I might be repeating what someone else had said.

I am impressed by this forum however. It's nice to express ones point of view without getting stoned or beat up. Good show : )

I think it is difficult for us to understand because we are not one with nature. If we were, it might be much more clear to us. As I believe nature is a reflection of God. As such - a good example is the shark and the dolphin. If you study both of these animals, you will see that clearly they represent good and evil. And God is the creator of both.

When they meet, most of the time they will simply swim together as if the other does not exist. However, on occassion they will fight. When they do fight sometimes neither will win. Sometimes the dolphin wins, sometimes the shark wins.

The question is not if, but why.

I think you will find the answer in the story of the reaper and the sower. Its a continual story. The sower plants and the reaper reeps.

God is both the reeper and the sower. We being the fruit of the Lords hand develop wisely knowing both good and evil.

The question is, does mankind have the right to rule themselves, and if so, where is it getting them?

DUGBUG says:

<<Why did god make a law about gravity, about respiration, why did he make us have to breath, if he is powerful then why did he do it? How come we evolved? Why do we need energy? He had the power to make us super human, super perfect. So why didn't he?

And just because god knows what we are doing doesn't mean we have no free will. So god knows that someone will take the shot for the basket instead of pass. It isn't like he is going to intervean. Just because god knows something doesn't mean god will do something about it. When has there ever been a divine intervention?>>

I'd like to point out several things, Dugbug. First, you've spoken about evolution first and then about God as if He exists. Which is it? If you claim that mankind evolved, then you deny creation. If you claim that God exists, then you deny evolution.

Secondly, I will show you a case where God has intervened in the past. The history you've been taught does not teach this, but if you dare peek into the Holy Scriptures, you will see that there have been many instances where God has directly intervened in mankind's doings. Take, for instance, the case where God directed one angel to overthrow 185,000 of King Sennacherib's fear inspiring Assyrian soldiers. As you may know, Assyria was the world's second power, with Egypt being the first. I will quote you the Scripture here:

*** 2 Kings 19:35 ***

And it came about on that night that the angel of Jehovah proceeded to go out and strike down a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the camp of the As·syr´i·ans. When people rose up early in the morning, why, there all of them were dead carcasses.

Now, you can choose to believe this or not. If you choose to believe this, I may continue to show you more answers to questions that all of you may have. Is there anyone else that would like to have a question answered?

you can believe in god and not believe in creation. We aren't talking about the Catholic religion specifically.

As I said, I believe in science and have an idea religion(to me religion should be an idea, not a belief). I believe in science, and what science doesn't explain, religion takes the part of. When science explains it, then I believe science.

Of course a HOLY scripture will help prove devine intervention.. it has to or else it disproves everything about itself. Maybe there is a scientific explination.. maybe not. If there is one that can be proven, then I will believe you are wrong. But if there isn't an explanation for it, then I will believe that maybe something devine did happen.

I knew this guy where I used to work - we would talk every morning. One morning he told me of something he had just learned. Mars is warming up, he told me, and they don' know how or why, they suspect bacteria. The ice is melting and there are small amounts of water. He said that in a 1000 years, Mars might become habitable. He said its a miracle, I didn't used to believe, but now I know, there is a God.

Just thought I'd share a story of intervention

Let me tell you another story of intervention. The earth is supposed to be in an ice age right now. They don't know why we are not.

Have you ever heard of the green house theory - we should not even be alive. But we are, and its a miracle. And it appears we live on even after the earth can no longer support life.

There is a God - I know it. This is the same God who created both the shark and the dolphin. Just because we don't know why, it does not make it not so.

But yes you can believe in God and Evolution. But why would you. Evolution is about the dummest theory I every heard. They are constently disproving it. But it is just a theory. that's why they didn't call it a fact.

Creationism - well I'm sorry, I don't believe in that either. It's a story, and there are several of them. The bible doesn't have the only one. The stories are to teach us not history, but more deeper things.

I don't think I'm going to share what I believe though, because I don't think you would believe it.

But it doesn't matter. What matters is that you believe : )

[q]<<Maybe there is a scientific explination.. maybe not. If there is one that can be proven, then I will believe you are wrong.>>[/q]

Well, the THEORY of evolution has certainly left enough holes for religion to fill in. Also, since the theory itself has never been proven, it is just that; a theory.

The theory is very plausable, if you can believe that man evolved through many series of small changes in structure and design. There are two things missing in this theory, however; the woman, and the designer.

Let's look at the probability that man evolved over many years with many changes. It is, in fact, highly improbable. Now add in the fact that a woman would have had to simultaneously evolve alongside the man, chronologically speaking, each step of the way. This is completely implausable. This is not my opinion. This is a fact. Without a woman to reproduce with, there wouldn't be any continuation of the species, let alone evolution.

Even science dictates that man was designed. The human eye will never be replicated even in the most primitive forms. The structure of the ear is just that; constructed. So whom is this designer?

[quote]But yes you can believe in God and Evolution. But why would you. Evolution is about the dummest theory I every heard. They are constently disproving it. But it is just a theory. that's why they didn't call it a fact.

Creationism - well I'm sorry, I don't believe in that either. [/qoute]

That's interesting, okcitykid. You neither accept Creation or Evolution. This, I would surmise leaves little else to believe. Unless you would consider a group of alien visitors coming here and genetically engineering mankind out of the elements of the earth, including animals already here. This, of course would be a form of creationism, as well, bearing in mind that the animals themselves would have had to be created prior, which is precisely how the Genesis account categorizes these events.

Does mankind's components resemble the elements of the earth? Absolutely. If all water was removed from a human being, there would only be dust and debris remaining.

Why would Creation be disbelievable? Could not a Supreme Being construct a human out of the elements of the ground? A scientific mind would agree that it is highly possible.

We cannot rule out the engineering of the molecular structure of matter into a living matter, simply by changing the molecular code. This being not a simple process to a human, but to an Almighty God, clearly feasable.

So, even though we cannot do this at this time, what's saying that a much more intelligent being could not do this?

You see, believing in Creation allows us to really broaden our thinking capacities much more than the Theory of Evolution allows. With Creation, the possiblilities of how The Creator developed man is endless.

*according to christian creed (or at least to my understanding of it) , heaven's a place where no sins are done and a place to which only good-hearted people are admitted. i think that, if you believe such a place can exist, then you can believe that bad people aren't necessary. * -KrazyGamer-

Yeah but in heaven, we don't need food. In heaven we are bound to survive. There is no need to compete for survival because we can't die again. So we don't have to fight for our will to survive.

The reason there is good and bad is because we have developed into a society. Do you ever hear of a bad animal in the animal kingdom. No. Because they aren't complex like us. They don't know right from wrong because there isn't a wrong or right, there is just survival. Yet, when we come along, we set up ways for us to survive. Rules that bind us together that are supposed to make people want to help others but really just says don't hurt anyone.

In the animal kingdom everything is predeterminded. You will grow up the son of the leader of the pack, you will rule the pack when you get old enough, and you will have first choice at mating. Yet, in our society (or atleast Western civilization) when we are born, we are almost equal as anyone else. (I say almost because a kid that grows up in a poor family doesn't have the options as a kid that grows up in a rich family) When we have this equality we have this fight to be set on the social charts. We all race to be the best, to live big, to be rich, to be loved, to have fun. When we race to this top position we are forced to compete with others and when we do this, some of us play fair,follow the rules for the most part, and some of us don't, break the rules or bend them to a point that is considered to far. Rules aren't our law. The rules are our morality. The major stuff, like murder, stealing, rape. The extremes. Not double-parking in a fire lane.

For the most part that should explain why we act evil, but not why there is evil.

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I think you need to make a new thread - this is not about creationism versus evolution. This is about is there a god and why is there evil. A very valid question.

The question about evolution versus creationism is not important enough to me to take a stand on. However I am sure if you start a new string, plenty will reply. I might even too.

God Bless You "The Okcitykid" Alias Roger Harkness

Mr. Dugbug:

My wife is a school teacher. She says if you are really 14, she's impressed, you're a deep thinker for your age.

You are saying that the following of rules makes us good and the breaking of rules makes us bad (evil). It's a lot more complicated then that. When you find time, you study the teachings of Confucius. There is so much more to learn.

Concerning the animals. The more you study them the more you will be amazed. They will have the apearance of evil, but you're right, they are only following the path given to them by mother nature (the law god (a god that is not really god, but a god like law - better yet, like a computer script))

To KrazyGamer. Why are we all not in heaven? If we ain't there yet, we must be bad. To get there, we have to get good. Many will add to this and rightly so. This is very narrow.

To understand this more fully, study the marriage feast.

The initial question asks if there is a God. To fairly determine this, one would have to rule out evolution, no?

Why does everyone think that chatolicism is the only religion, or only thing for that matter that has a single god. You don't always have to agree with a major religion. You can choose to believe or think whatever you want.

No - I don't know why you would have to rule out evolution inorder to beliieve in God. Couldn't have God created evolution? If there is such a thing.

I don't think everyone does think that chatoclicism is the only religion. Maybe only those around you. God is niether single or many things. God is more than we can understand - So we understand God however we can, for most, that is single. Even when I pray to God, and I know better, I pray to him my father. Even though I know God is more, that's just what my mind understands. I don't think God is insulted.

My understanding is that it doesn't matter how we understand God - God works with what we can understand.

If there's a god, why is there evil?

More specifically, can there be an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-GOOD god, based on the amount of evil there is in the world?

1:06:41 am - April 16th
[ Edited by think4yourself ]


I will take this thread back to the original question...and share my opinions...

"In the struggle between good and evil...good always prevails"...

For those that believe in "God"....the answer to this question lies in the bible...not sure which page, which verse...etc....but I know it is there...

the story of Satan...and how he came about...and how God created evil to tempt us...

But...the thread seems to have taken a turn to a discussion about evolution vs. creation...which I have mixed feelings about. Science can PROVE evolution...if you get the chance...the Discovery Channel is doing the "Walking with the Caveman"...throughout the month of June...so watch that...

Where is there proof that the bible is not just a novel written many years ago?...

I always believed in God...and maybe I still do...who knows?

For instance when I walk outside and my eyes feast upon the glory around me...the mountains, the flowers, the moon, the sun, the stars....And when I look at my child...I am in awe...and for those reasons, I do believe that there is a "superior being"...or many...that designed and created mankind...the earth...the planets...etc...

BUT...the fact that my mind is not fully able to accept any fact without PROOF...leads me to the "pondering" of "evolution".

And, in reference to Dugbug's question...

"Why does everyone think that chatolicism is the only religion"

I have studied many religions...in my search for the truth...and...according to the "bible"...and varioius studies...all religions have stemmed from "Catholicism"...

I may have talked in circles here....and if I did...I apologize...


~MG

how can all religions come from catholicism, when most of them were created before it. The Jews were the ones that created catholicism. Hinduism and Budism came about way before the European man had stepped a foot into Asian lands.
The only things that came from catholicism is protestants, calvinists, all those Renaissance relgions but they are all grouped under Christianity. What about Islam and Judism?

I kinda feel the same way about how you understand what the bible is trying to say and do, and what they take as their interpretations. Yet, you can't fully agree with them because they lack proof.