Emotions vs Logic

Today I was thinking about if it would be better to have no emotions whatsoever and be creaures of logic, or if it better to have emotions and all that comes with them. I asked several of my classmates, and only one chose to get rid of emotions. At first I thought it was because she was more logical than emotional, but I dismissed that when several other logical people stated that they would chose to keep their emotions.

The main reasons that they gave for that answer:
-Emotions are what make us human
-Life would have no point without emotion

So it would seem that keeping them would be the logical choice (sorry), but for some reason I still don't entirely agree. Certainly some people would be dangerous without emotions, but for the most part I think people would be at peace with each other, which is good.

But as for the reasons, I think you still can be human because the main factor for humanity is a far greater mental capacity than animals, which doesn't neccesarily coincide with emotions. But would you be less than human still?

And as for life having no point: I'm pretty sure the purpose of life has to do with relationships, so without emotion can attachments and relationships even be formed? And if that's not the point, then what is?

And as a sidenote it seems that the more negative your experiences or pessimistic your outlook on life, the more willing you'd be to give up your emotions. At least that's the trend I was seeing.

-This is my first post so please bear with me if it's in the wrong area or whatnot-

It is hard to imagine a creature without emotions. Even bugs, I think, have the capacity to sense danger and fear it. Emotions seem necessary for survival, they teach us things. Our desire to live, I would say, comes from emotions. If you had no emotions, you would not care if you died. Just like a machine doesn't care if you turn it off.

If we had no emotions, we would be machines, only doing things for reasons hardwired into us from the beginning. We would derive no enjoyment from anything we do, nor would we seek it. We would simply be, I think.

quote:

---

Certainly some people would be dangerous without emotions, but for the most part I think people would be at peace with each other, which is good.

---

I think wanting peace comes from an emotional place in the human mind, so if we truly had no emotion, we would not care one iota how we treat everything around us. Desire itself seems to come from our emotional needs, so no, I don't think we would desire anything beyond our basic needs. You would not be able to form meaningful relationships. Nothing we do would even have a meaning to us.

I believe what makes us human is to do with our capacity to both feel emotions and be logical. I think these two things are very interwoven for humans, and we have such advanced skills, compared to other animals, at managing these two things at the same time. We are able to percieve the world at a different level and express this, because of these two things.

Edit:

To go further, if we had no emotions, we would not be where we are today. I think we would be animals driven only by built in instincts. We wouldn't be the same as other animals on earth though, because I think every other animal on earth has an emotional capability. We'd be more like plants, but walking plants. That's creepy.

I don't even believe that a purely logical human exists, in general. We have a certain type of logic that we use, because we also factor in emotions when we are making a logical decision about real world situations. For instance, if you are trying to make a logical decision on what to buy a friend for her birthday gift, we are basing our logic on reaching the best emotional outcome for that person.

Maybe you could even say that our desire to reach the best emotional outcomes, is what drives us to use logical thinking in the first place?

If one were to take away our emotions, our logic that we have now, wouldn't be the same logic that we would have then. We would be operating from a different kind of logic.

quote:

---

I'm pretty sure the purpose of life has to do with relationships, so without emotion can attachments and relationships even be formed? And if that's not the point, then what is?

---

I would say, at a very basic level, our purpose in life is to fulfill our needs and desires as humans. Our emotions and our logic give us those needs and desires. Without these things, we would have a different purpose.

If you're asking about a deeper purpose than this, I don't think anyone could answer that yet.

This is from a game called Dragon Age. I thought it was relevant.


Tranquil
From Dragon Age Wiki

'Some laugh at me. I no longer mind.

Once upon a time, I studied as they did. I learned under the tutelage of an Enchanter and attempted to master the art of bending magic to my will, and while I did well enough I know that I struggled. I saw the way the Enchanter looked at me, the sidelong glances of worry and disappointment. While other apprentices were conjuring fire I could barely light a candle.

I was frightened of magic. When I was a boy, my grandmother regaled me with tales of the terrible Flemeth, the Witch of the Wilds. She told me of the Magisters and how their evil magic infected the world with the darkspawn. She told me of demons, and how they were drawn to the dreams of those who possessed magic like moths to a flame. She told me all these things because, she said, the talent ran in our family's blood.

And so it ran in mine. All my young life I had dreaded the thought, prayed to the Maker that I was not so cursed... but I knew otherwise. Deep in my heart, I knew. When the templars came to our home, I knew.

The mages' tower was terrifying, full of secrets and danger. The templars glared at me as if I could spring full into an abomination before their very eyes. My Enchanter patiently attempted to teach me to marshal my willpower, my only defense should a demon attempt to enslave me, but it was no use. How many nights did I cry myself to sleep in that dark and lonely place?

Then my Harrowing came at last, my final test. Face a demon, they said, or submit to the Rite of Tranquility. They would sever my connection to the Fade, and thus I would never dream and no demon could ever touch me... but I would also be unable to do magic, and I would never feel an emotion ever again. Facing the demon was certain death, so my choice was an easy one.

It was not so painful.

Now I serve in other ways. We Tranquil manage the archives. We run the tower, purchase the supplies and maintain the accounts. Our condition also allows us to use the magical element lyrium without ill effect, and thus we are the ones who enchant the magical items. We are the merchants who sell these items to those the Circle permits, and the coin from those sales provides the Circle's wealth.

Thus, we Tranquil are vital. The young and old may stare at me, ill at ease, but they would be worse off without me. They may think me a failure, but there is no horror for me now. I feel no fear of what I am. The shadows are merely shadows, and I am content.'

"-- Eddin the Meek, Tranquil of the Circle of Magi of Starkhaven, the Free Marches"

Hedgehog, this is for you whenever you may get around to discussing this with me.

Apparently we can have intent without emotion.

When I asked the person who proposed this, to explain this logically, he basically refused to and was seemingly unable. My view is that if the argument of intent without emotion actually had any logic, the logic would definitely be more understandable, by both yourself and me.

My point in my bringing this up with you hedgehog, is in the hopes of understanding the argument behind "intent vs emotions", because I truly want to distinguish with you, whether or not such an argument has any merit. Apparently he says that not even you can understand his "philosophy", yet claims that you agree with him on it. But why would you agree with such arguments if you cannot see the logic behind it? Isn't that harmful to you and completely against the search for real truth and understanding?

Agreeing with ideas that we cannot see the logic behind is akin to a teacher still teaching children that the earth is flat, when all evidence available is very much counter to that belief. All teachers should be able to adopt information that has true merit, in a progressive manner. Any person who obstructs truth, knowledge and understanding, in my eyes at least, actually has no business in becoming a teacher. Do you agree?

My thoughts right now, are that the argument has absolutely no merit, and I don't really see how you would be able to debate this topic.

If real logic exists that can override my logic, then the argument has merit and should be considered. If the logic behind it cannot be unearthed, someone is going to have to face up to the reality that the argument is completely false.

So I will start.

Intent is directed by emotion, therefore there is always an emotion behind every intent. Everything we do has an intent, therefore everything we do can be connected to our emotions.

For example, I believe that even when we go to the toilet to releave ourselves, it is not only in our bodies intent to do so, but it can also be connected to the emotional intent of relieving the stress that is brought upon us by our bodies. If you cannot releave the physical stress, this then brings on emotional stress - feelings of frustration, even unhappiness.

Actions taken without any intent would be meaningless, as the action would have no emotion, no reasoning behind it. With humans, I don't believe that this is actually possible, and if it is, I would like to understand exactly how it is.

I stand somewhere in the middle of the argument. Although emotions are important I don't do everything based off of emotion. In fact there are instances where I will go counter to my emotions. For instance just a little while ago my gf broke up with me. I was heartbroken. But, i didn't let that stop me from fucking another chick. Although all emotional instincts told me to call up my gf and beg for her back, I didn't do it. This is because I knew my instincts were lying to me. I knew that obviously she didn't feel the same way anymore and that even if we did get back together it would be out of pity. So I guess what I'm saying is that it would be nice to not have to go through emotion that is essentially illogical and only makes you miserable and only experience the good emotion of love and the happiness. But I guess the one can't be without the other and therefore to get the extra good in your life you must experience some bad! I say it's worth it!

Personally, I think in this circumstance, you have a good balance of emotion and logic, Jacker.

Also I think that what you did supports this idea -

"Maybe you could even say that our desire to reach the best emotional outcomes, is what drives us to use logical thinking in the first place?"

Which would mean that in those situations, you are able to use logic greatly to your advantage, because you are able to percieve where in fact, the better emotional outcome is for you. And in this case, it is to let go, as you already knew.

Thank you vigil! But I guess what I'm getting at is that emotion doesn't make life easy! But to get rid of it would just be lazy because it does make life better when it is working for you! However, it can also work against you which can make life difficult and confusing. So, really it just makes life interesting. I mean in every story there is conflict which is what makes the story interesting. Without the bad emotion then your life would be really boring having essentially everything work for you.

Haha, totally agree jacker, all of our experiences whether good or bad, are what makes life interesting. We certainly shouldn't expect anything to be easy, or turn a blind eye, when it comes to dealing with emotions that we don't want to deal with.

People who say that they want to get rid of emotions, are just being far too fearful of themselves and others, and the repercussions that their emotions will inevitably bring them at some point. The brave ones will accept both the good and bad in life, and live their lives accordingly.

I enjoyed reading this as I have considered for quite some time to at my best of course without putting asside cirtain circumstance to use more logical thought than make an emotional bias decition. furthermore science has proven that we do to a cirtan extent require emotion to to arrive at a logical choice. however on the topic of relationships I do believe that making the logical choice without the bias of emotion is the correct path for example if you feel that a love relationship is not working the logical choice is to end it before it turnes to emotional turmoil.
On the other hand the same applies outside of your love life in the sence that if a cirtain crowd makes you feel uncomfortable ( damn those pesky feelings again ) than the logical choice is to leave the situation.
I find useing logic in this fashion when at the same time putting asside emotion is genrealy the happy medium

I think the answer lies somewhere in once you have Control over your emotions you are then capable of makeing a rational logical choice..... controling the ammount of emotion you put into your choices can greatly affect the outcome of any situation.

quote:

---

And as for life having no point: I'm pretty sure the purpose of life has to do with relationships, so without emotion can attachments and relationships even be formed? And if that's not the point, then what is?

---

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women.
Or, maybe the point of ones existence is the existence itself, or even the search for its meaning. What better point to life, than ferreting out the point after all? For ages people have dedicated their entire lives to that very question. They seemed to find tremendous purpose in it.


Attachments don't require any sort of emotionality. Emotion is a driving force, for good or bad. I think evolution designed it to help move organisms in certain directions.In that sense I do believe that emotions can be replaced by a sufficient body of logic. This is what a classic 'marriage of necessity' is, no?
I have found that when speaking of humans, defining them in any way as simple organisms tends to backfire at some point.

quote:

---

And as a sidenote it seems that the more negative your experiences or pessimistic your outlook on life, the more willing you'd be to give up your emotions. At least that's the trend I was seeing.

---

Or people who have poor control over their emotions tend to suffer negative consequences related to their emotional states, end up being pessimistic and in general have more negative experiences. Rarely do people make the connection between their own reactions and what happens in the world. Therefore, for those people they believe that giving up the emotions would solve the problem. As Harris stated, deftly I might add, the happy medium tends to yield excellent results.

Whether or not emotions, just like sex, make ones life better or worse often depends on whether or not the person is the one in control of things instead of being controlled by them.

I find it interesting how at the core emotions are but another of our senses, and a bit ironic how logic actually has held back our proper understanding of the sensory tool that is emotions.

I also find it interesting how the intensity of emotion can come shape and repreoritize ones entire sense of purpose both momentarily and or indefinitely.

But I suspect that emotions are not meant to be erradicated, simply tamed and indeed experienced through more enlightened ways, such as decius said, through logic as well.

Nicely put for a guy with a squirrel humping his skull.

I haven't considered emotions as a set of senses. Typically psychology as whole wouldn't define them as such. Then again the field at large still struggles with the very definition of perception, senses and so on.

It is a very interesting take on emotions.

I have always thought of them more like, interpretive filters, a set of evaluational tools.

Care to elaborate on your perspective Ironwood?

I found this, kind of metaphysical take on the matter.

http://www.enlightenedfeelings.com/emotions.html

Not much elaboration needed, your link explains it well.

For me personally, I certainly did not always feel this way.

I used to think emotions were a burden and an outdated function meant to be controlled if not eradicated. Though I understood how boring life would be without them, so I never closed the door.

And standard modern psych and Freud indeed are the basis of my point that logic has belittled and subjugated emotions and their significance and importance overall.

Just as with dreams, and later, what is commonly referred to as non physical reality, spiritual realms, astral planes etc.

Freud's student Carl Jung is a great example of the evolution of Freud's basis ideal as well as the disconnect of its limited and often dismissive nature.

My reasoning behind my strong change of paradigm is my personal experiences with lucid dreaming, out of body experiences and other such poorly understood and often maligned phenomena.

Subjective experience is left behind in science, usually rightfully so, but it has its place and isn't as subjective as we tend to think. As our own government programs, most notably remote veiwing have proven.

As well as further peer reviewed double blind studies into the power of intention. Books like Lynn McTaggerts "The Field" and "The Intention Experiment" are great and well researched and sourced resources on the matter.

Given my curious nature and desire to know what existance is, how and why, physics have always interested me, especially conceptual and theoretical.

Some of the most fascinating research I've come across comes from a new trend, hard core scientists and particularly physicists become converts to the often taboo nature of psychic phenoma and non physical reality, heresy from within.

And the interesting thing is, to start to experience it simply takes belief, in at least the possibility though it grows with the strength of belief, and desire or concentrated willpower.

First night I read a lucid dreaming book I had my first lucid dream, shortly thereafter my all manner of mind blowing phenomena occurred.

Given the vs. title I'll say this this way.

An example of logic "defeating" emotion, with significant practical applications, is when one either uses logic to deduce a fact and elicit an emotion period, or actually uses logic to feel specific emotions or change existing emotions etc.

Such as, watching your mother die and hating the lost potential and opportunities and feeling horrible and taking that to the rational logical thought that she is suffering and her death would bring peace which lessens the pain and perhaps even bring happiness depending your beliefs about the "afterlife".

The subject of delusion vs belief vs conscious creation is another level among others I'm sure.