Is God in your church

Is God in your church. Well i was reading on a forum for catholics and this site has come to the conclusion that only ten percent will go to heaven. Now i havent found any mathematical equation that backs that up. Also it stated that a saint basco " I think its how you spell it" said the gate is small and the path is narrow and there will be few that enter. But its Jesus who said that not a saint. Well i can tell you if God is there or not. If the gospel of Jesus is preached then He is there.

ok sorry decius. The catholic site that i found is the one that stated that only ten percent will go to heaven not me. Sorry for the confusion. The point is that there are alot of false teachings comming from the catholic church as well as many others. I would like to know if others are experincing this problem of false teachings and if thats why so many dont believe in God due to all the confusion. Are you Christian?

its a shame decius that your not a christian you have much insight that would be great in the purpose of God. I do agree on one point people dont need religion. they need Jesus christ. Did you know that the original christian movement when Jesus was here wasnt called christianity it was THE WAY. People just followed the way. Then society began to make sects and denominations. Also you say they are compensating for whatever humans always have compensated for but rather than use church or religion they use technology. Could it be that until you find Jesus you'll always be trying to compensate for that feeling in us, desire, what ever it may be called. And what do you mean on personal escape. Christ doesnt help you escape anything HE FREES YOU.

Yes the freedom is psychological and spiritual.
Now i should tell you that being a follower of Christ wont make you feel guilty all the time. Let me ask you do you think that there is a good guilt and a bad guilt. Good guilt motivates us to do right. Where bad guilt is something that weighs you down. And I agree no one want to feel that all the time. Only guilt you feel is good guilt and thats only when you do things that arent right. And that guilt just motivates you to make the wrong right or try not to do it again. See once you get saved you recieve the Spirit of God. That Spirit is there to help you and show you whats right and wrong. Not to bare you down with guilt.

see people use the"feel free" response because they want to do things that they know arent right. Not suggesting you but its why people say that. But what makes you think that you cant do what ever you want to and be saved. You can But you wont want to. Thats the thing Jesus dosent say stop doing everything you do and only do what I say. All He says is try to follow Me.

We are all born in sin and will die in it. But because God Loves YOU so much thats why we can just pray believe and execpt christ into our hearts and be saved. Meaning go to heaven. There is no way we can compensate for all the sin we do by actions. See its no do good get good. You can even do bad and get good. Thats how Good God is.

I do know Jesus teaching because its in the New Ttestament.
See the apostals said that they follow THE WAY in the book of Acts. They never said we are christians. They said this because Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Light no one may come to the Father except by ME.

Let me ask you would it hurt you to ask Jesus into your heart if it could even possibly make your life so much better. All you have to do to go to heaven is say a short prayer to yourself and just really believe in Jesus and that He died for YOU.

I would believe and pray to Jesus if he provided me even just personal proof.

Did Jesus, when you prayed to him, provide you with undeniable or near undeniable proof (if only to yourself) that he exists and is listening and answering your prayers?

If he did, if you don't mind me asking, what was the event or events that convinced you (within the context of your life)?

yes my friend He did. I was a medium size drug dealer who was out of control. I got saved in the first few days of being incarcerated. So i really wasnt sure of what to expect. I m not sure if you understand the judicial system but i was facing 2 second degree felonies and 1 fourth degree felony and didnt have a good track record. So it wasnt lookin good. Facing 10 to 20 yrs. I did ask God please just give me a chance and i wont let You down. I recieved 10 months in a state jail. That was the first miracle. Now the second came as well in jail. I treated my babies mom very bad while i was selling. she left with my daughter. I ask Him to please help me get her back. I had no way to contact her other than write to the last know address i had. So i did. And a while later she came with my daughter. This was in 2004. We are still together and living for Jesus. Now my life is far from perfect and any christian who says other wise is lying. But 10months from 10yrs and to restore my family that should of been destroyed from my verbal and sometimes physical abuse. There is no CHANCE that it was CHANCE. My wife isnt stupid and didnt have to wait almost a yr for me to get out. But God wanted us to be together. And there are so many more. One time i was using meth and passed out at the wheel. I woke up the next morning about ten miles away parked in a neighborhood asleep in my car. I was safe. Look you want your own proof He will give it to you. But dont ask Him for magic tricks like some of these other guys. Just say Lord Jesus I dont know you that well but I need you to show me that Your here. Look up the story of Gideon. Great example of Gods willingness to show us He is there for us. Hope i help and please feel free to ask any other questions.

I'm not a christian but I respect some of its teachings on living. But I read some where that the original christianity teachings were distorted in the 3rd centry. The vatican does not have its foundations on christ. Christ would not promote hierarchy and uniform dress wear.

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And I agree no one want to feel that all the time. Only guilt you feel is good guilt and thats only when you do things that arent right. And that guilt just motivates you to make the wrong right or try not to do it again.

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Whats wrong with wanting to do good because it feels good to do good things? Or becuse you like the feeling you get when you make others happy?

Whats wrong with not doing something bad to another because you know how it feels to be treated that way, so you don't put others through that suffering?

Whats wrong with using empathy to guide your actions instead of a fear of punishment?

To me, a truly good person is someone who is doing good because of whats in their heart. Not because they are worried there is some invisible man watching them like father Christmas, checking whose been naughty and nice, and who wont reward them when Christmas time comes.

I was meaning in the quote you put up, that say I curse out my friend because i was mad at something else. Now the Holy Spirit inside me convicts me to make my wrong write. Thats good guilt.

And nothing is wrong with wanting to do good because it makes others feel happy. But Happiness depends on whats happening. Joy is what is everlasting. And when you do good in Jesus name you bring joy and happiness.

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Whats wrong with using empathy to guide your actions instead of a fear of punishment?

There is no reason to fear punishment. Jesus aint allah. God is love and does not punish people for not doing good. There have been plenty of opportunities to do good for others in my life that I missed. Or even just iqnored. But I never feared Gods punishment. I was just convicted that I could of made an impact in that persons life and missed the chance. But dont worry there will always be another one.

squarepants not sure on the 3rd century piece but will chk. As for the vatican they have been commiting apostacy for a long time. They will weigh you down with ruies and craziness. They have always been about the money. Thats why Martin Luther split due to the catholic church falling away from the teachings of Jesus.
GOD BLESS YOU BOTH

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This is the core issue. All abrahamic religions have hell. Maybe all religions do. If there is a hell, there is a punishment, there is fear. As I outlined above, the conscience is YOURS. If anyone retains control of it, it has to be through the use of fear. Otherwise we would never let anyone else control it.

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There's a problem here with your logic, D. Consequence, or as you have labeled it, punishment, does not necessarily induce or create fear. I think it would be helpful to look at fear a little more closely and not assume there is only one kind.

Instinctually we all fear jumping off a cliff to our death and because of this we avoid it - I think this is a healthy type of fear. Another type of fear is a paranoid-like fear where someone is constantly on guard in an otherwise safe environment.

Most of us wouldn't fear smoking a single cigarette (just to see what it's like.) This is because it is a danger that takes a long time to create noticeable harm. However, it would be wise to avoid it knowing the risks and gains (for those who say it's meditative, don't you agree that any meditative benefit could be substituted, and more effectively, with simple meditation?)

Let's assume the universe has a purpose. If it does, then there are certainly actions and motives that are more in line with the purpose than others. It seems also, assuming the previous stated is true, that these actions and motives would create a more purposeful and happy life.

I believe hell is a real place. But I think, like the infinite shades of the color blue, there are infinite degrees of hell. Hell would be a deviation from things that create happiness and fulfillment - we're back to the consequences or punishment. Now do we have to fear hell? Not anymore, I think, than we should fear cigarette smoke. Why fear something you don't have to choose?

If you're looking for proof of hell, I can't give you that. I know that I've experienced hellish things in my life time and it's convinced me enough not to want to experience them again. It's like I'm striving for a higher plateau of fulfillment and happiness. Is that the same thing as avoiding and fearing hell? I'm more repulsed by hell than afraid of it.

Fear seems to come from a lack of control or choice. What I'm trying to point out is that if you have a choice to follow "The Way" or not then how could you possibly fear the consequences? No one's forcing you one way or the other - but it seems like the difference between going up stream or down stream.

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However, if a Christian does it because he fears going to hell, it is not freedom. He/she is not acting with personal choice. This is because the fear of going to hell does not give you the choice to do it anyways - if you do it, you're fucked.

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We must have the freedom to choose to jump off a cliff even if we are aware of the consequence. My point is the lack of this freedom, and how it is always only created by illogical fears brought about by external sources.

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You're missing the glaringly obvious. You CAN go "The Opposite Way." You CAN jump off the cliff. I don't think anyone would consider Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy to be good Christians (or Christians at all for that matter.) It's like you're arguing that you want to be wrong but still be right. You get what I'm trying to say? If there is a path that brings about the most purpose and the most happiness, then any path in the opposite direction would be leading towards purposelessness and sadness. If there is a right then there must be a wrong.

To put this all another way, it's as if a starving man has the choice to satisfy his hunger with either rocks or rice. You seem to be arguing that he should be able to eat rocks and still achieve satisfaction. Well in reality he's fucked as you put it. Maybe after eating rocks for a while he'll learn that he's not satisfied and try out the rice - when you look at life from a standpoint of lessons, it seems like this guy was never off the path even when he chose to eat rocks.

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I never talked about the outcome of jumping off a cliff, just that you should have the freedom to do so if you choose.

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And who said you can't?

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Because even if you do it this time, at some point you won't because you didn't overcome the bias.

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Even if you do what? Jump off a cliff?

Again, you CAN jump off the cliff despite feeling guilty because of how your family will react. Am I missing something?

Sure this is simple and obvious in the sterile world of concepts but you're disregarding the possibility that the way described in the Bible could be true to reality and conducive to a more purposeful and happy existence than without it.

There are many things in the external world we are influenced by and we pay awareness to because we know for certain that they have recognizable consequences. For instance, we don't walk into oncoming traffic because we know that it will likely either kill us or cause great pain and suffering. Are we a prisoner of oncoming traffic and hence not free?

Now you must agree that there are MANY things that are unknown to us but are still very much a part of reality. You can't say with absolute certainty that Christianity is not what it says it is (or any religion for that matter.) This is why your obvious and absurd example of a child being told by his mother that if they have friends then they don't love their family is a fallacy. In most cases this is obviously untrue. Whereas with Christianity we are dealing with an unknown and unproven field of experience.

If the teachings of the Bible accord to reality (remember it's neither proven nor disproven) then its influence is real and can be taken into awareness and used to either advantage or disadvantage. So how does following the teachings of the Bible (or maybe only certain ones) automatically make someone unfree?

Chis I know you mean well, but I think trying to argue over the smaller details of someones example is getting totally off the point. You may not have noticed in your desire to find a crack in Decius' hypotheticals is that the person who Decius' initial posts are aimed at hasn't replied back since you joined the conversation.

I'm not telling you you're wrong, but I think you sometimes have to see the bigger picture. Arguing the point on something that is not the issue at hand will mean you never end up addressing that actual issue itself.