Pedophilia

My friend's 11-year-old cousin admitted today that her step-father has been sexually abusing her for five years. She didn't understand what he was doing to her until she had sex education. She's confronted her mother, but she won't accept what her daughter says (though I'm not sure if the daughter has revealed all). I've talked to child protection services, and just as my friend said, we can't remove her from that house without evidence, preferably visual. The girl tried to set up a camera once, but her stepfather found it. He's got some sexual dysfunction as well. He's religious too. Many of the branches of this family has a history of sexual abuse, including my friend, one of the few members of that family who's sane. She's having flashbacks of what she went through years ago. Why? What makes a person sick enough to do something like this?

I am trying to understand this, not justify it.

If we look to older cultures, even in England, not just places like Arabia, women were likely to be married at a younger age, and and for it to be accepted by people at that time. An example is that Muhammed, who claims to be the last prophet of Islam married a 6 year old girl, and not many objected to it, she was Muhammed best friends daughter and they remained friends even afterwards.
Now this is jus a thought, perhaps paedophila is not a result of some kind of sickness, abnormality of the brain, or a product of a shitty childhood.
Perhaps its something that is natural, and was once accepted as natural, and now because of social changes the natural clashes with the socially constructed?

For an adult to be sexually aroused by a child seems disgusting, i wont say it is disgusting. This reminds me of when i read about homosexuality, how it was diagnosed as an illness, men were put in psychiatric wards etc, but were they actually ill? Were they disgusting for feelings they did not create.
Dont get me wrong, if a man or woman ever even let slip that they were aroused by my children, i would knock their teeth right in, because i cant personally accept it., our children are manufactured children.
It has been argued that childhood has actually been created, young boys act in this way because we socialised them to, girls walk like that because we taught them to. Children cannot comprehend sexuality, because we hid it them from it, and that is why that which is culturally constructed, that is childhood, is only violated when it comes in contact with paedophila which then in turn causes trauma.
See Decius i dont believe that a man does it because they are desperate for some kind of love, , i think it is just a sexual preference that has existed in other societies and has been accepted as such. So the way i am sexually aroused by adult males, and a lesbian woman by female adults, a paedophile is by a young child. But whats to prove its actually abnormal, maybe our society is abnormal.
Perhaps they dont care of the effect it has on the child because they feel this is the only way they can effectivily have any kind of relationship with a child, by becoming numb to the childs pain, or trying to ignore it.

Natural emotion, behaviour + socially constructed morals =
Trauma, choas, some kind of drama.

Im not saying that homosexuls and paedophiles are the same, dont get me wrong Decius.
The mentality, and actions of a homosexual and paedophile are completely dissimilar.
But im saying that the same way that homosexuals were regarded as ill, as are paedophiles now, can we not even comprehend that maybe we;re wrong about paedophiles as well? Perhaps its not a sickness, its just another part of human sexuality that we have not understood yet.

And in the past homosexuals have partly hated theirselves because they were hated and despised by society, it has been found that even now some homosexuals feel emotions of self hate at the start, unlike paedophiles though they can let these go once they see that societty will accept them and its alright. the only similarity between homosexuals and paedophiles is the reaction they get from everybody else for their sexual preferences. That is all. Paedophiles that do hate their ;'vice', hate it because they have been told repeatedly that they are disgusting, and unnatural, perverted, (fair enough), i dont think its a choice either, but i dont think that makes it an illness.

what am I getting at, every time we do something that is harmful to other people, a lack of conscience, does that make us mentally ill? Is there actually something wrong with our mind? or is that just the way some people are, were they okay and then went wrong? Im actually asking this question.

I have no sympathies with a paedophile, its destructive what they can do, but then what do we do? Do we find every human with these feelings and then kill them or hide them from our children, I wish we could, but there must be some other way.

See all im saying is that i dont think its a sickness, its harmful to our children, but does that make it a sickness?

It's really hard to accept all of what you're saying in the state of hurt. How is the girl going to heal? She's going to be in more pain in her adult years .

I dont believe that an adult who wants to have sex with a child is afraid of adults, and then preys on the young because children are uncomplicated, and easy to manipulate. What of adults that are married and have been caught with pictures on their laptops, or of child rape, not every one of these paedophiles are single, or show signs of social instability, that means that Im asking the question, is this is this an abnormality or is it just a fetish.

I have said that when you mix something natural, which would be the paedophilia in this discussion, with that which is socially constructed, that is our morals, the way we raise our children, the amount of sexuality we display to children it causes the trauma.
in most thoses cases, if children did come across sex so early, it was done in fearful, painful circumstances, children were made to feel guiltyt, and manipulated, lied to, all this caused the retardation, not the sex itself, and what forced a paedophile to act in this way, because he cannot openly do it, he has to resort to all te only way its possible for him to carry out his sexual fantasies. Through harming the child to keep them quiet.

Maybe im also blaming society for a paedophiles actions but how on earth do we go around that?
Does this mean that we now allow paedophiles to move in on our kids openly, hell no, but thats as far as i can understand the problem at hand.

Also. I personally cannot see any benefit for an adult to have sex with a child unless the child can reproduce, in regard to our survival as a species, but perhaps in another society with another social construction it could be beneficial in other ways.
I understand how it csn be defined as an abnormality but i feel that we jump to early and call it disgusting, and grossly indecent, and that it can only be possibly be result of x y and z, which is exactly what they said about homosexuals, maybe with more study, then we can come to another conclusion to help sort the problem out.

And Attolia i dont believe that either i, or Decius are trying to justify it, but to understand it, so as to find a solution to the problem.
What do you think D?

Perhaps.

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Even in a society where it is completely accepted I believe a child will be severely handicapped emotionally if they engage in intercourse prematurely.

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I do actually agree with most of what you are saying,
The difference may only be this:
you assume that even in a society which accepted it a child will still be emotionally handicapped, and im allowing the possibility that the child may not be.

Okay fine,

My grandmother married my grandfather at the age of 12, and he was alot older than her, that would be regarded as paedophilia in Western countries, because it was accepted by her culture, and herself as an individual, she was not sexually handicapped, did not dislike her husband etc, was not manipulated, she did what she believed was correct, she isnt the only one, many women in Asian, African, and Arab culture have married young, they were not all forced, and being from an Asian culture myself i know that not every single pakistani woman or bangladeshi woman is forced into marriag, marriage= a sexual relationship.

two adults can have a very unhealthy relationship full of violence and manipulation, perhaps not all circumstances of what we call paedophilia are actually harmful to the younger individual involved. If manipulation, violence, anger, shame is used to coax her, then it will be very negative.
So in another culture at a another time older men were marrying younger women, were every single one of these women forced, and then emotionally destroyed?

As for human beings that are not in any way mentally or physically developed for a sexual relationship, I dont have any evidence that it can not be detrimental. However for chilldren, male or female, that may have recently reached puberty, I believe its possible, as the above examples demonstrate, that it did exist in previous cultures, and it was not always harmful, and even encouraged as younger women seem more fertile. A 'child' at 13 had alot more chance of getting pregnant than a 25 year old woman as our eggs start becoming useless as time progresses.
Therefore it could even be positive for society if women started their sexual experiences at a younger age.
Does this mean that they should be raped, lied to, made to feel guilty?
The act of having the relationship with somebody underage by our legal systems may not always be wrong, it is what paedophiles do to reach their forbidden aim.

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A 'child' at 13 had alot more chance of getting pregnant than a 25 year old woman as our eggs start becoming useless as time progresses.

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Incorrect, logic would dictate what you are saying as correct. I take classes in a hospital taught by a nurse who did OB for about 8 years. She said that the most fertile time for a woman's body is in the ages 23-28 because a woman's body in hormonally in the best shape of its life. I could get into detail but that is not what this thread is about so I'll just leave it at this for now.

Firstly Zack, thank you.
How in the name of Allah? didnt know you became so religious Decius.

And what gives you the right to assume you know what my grandmother or any other woman experienced, none at all.
And to say I have been lied to, you have no proof of that, just another assumption to base it on.

And none are happy in aranged marriages, well that has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever seen you type, many many people i know have had arranged marriages, and are happy, and yeah go ahead and say it, no they are lying to you, inside they are really hurting.
And now we arent to believe people from arranged marriages either, whats the point of ever asking people for their experiences and feelings, we'll all just believe it is how we expect it to be, and then say they are lying or hiding feelings.
They cry in a corner and weep their pain, save it D.
There is a huge difference between aranged and forced marriages.

Maybe you are right, i havent personally dealt with paedophiles or their victims, but im not going to just assume that every single individual that has not expressed a negative experience is lying, whats the point in asking them if you already have made you're mind up.
Either way, im going to not attempt to explain paedophilia anymore, I actually cannot, I dont have enough evidence, and reading your replys I agree with you, I know when there is no point in argueing a case anymore.
I know theres more to paedophilia than it just being a sick disgusting illness. I just dont know what yet.


ThaTS it, case closed from me. Dont make this into a personal bitch fight, im not bothered.

Hey, her

I do not wish to take a side on this issue because I am still undecided. I do believe however you might do some research into hebephilia which the desire for people going through puberty. This sounds a lot like what you were referencing with your grandmother not pedophilia which is to be sexually stimulated by humans who have not begun puberty. There is a large difference, mostly that hebephilia is accepted in most cultures while pedophilia is rejected by almost every culture.

Religion promotes sex with kids. Stay away from american churches, priests, all christians(whites), all catholics(Italians, Latinos ), and any other types that allow adults to secretly condone and willfully touch children.

The churches motto is " you say molesting, we say caressing"

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She was 12 - you telling me a 12 year old would rather be fucking an older guy than playing with her friends? And she wasn't manipulated?

What about the fact that it was an arranged marriage, or did you forget to mention that? Or did her and him have a long courtship... you know, when she was 10? You know how many people in arranged marriages are actually happy? None. That's right. You know how many people in arranged marriages will tell everyone else that they are happy? All of them.

All in all, you've been lied to. Your grandma was not happy - she was raped. She didn't know what a cock was, and your grandpa stuck it in her to get off. He came inside of her and she spent the rest of the night crying in a corner while he snored, missing her parents and friends and siblings, if she had them.

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Recently someone asked me if I would "refrain" from berrateing someone who posts on this site - reasoning that we all go through a learning curve - so "slamming" their arrogance or ignorance... is uncalled for and counter productive...

Yeah, right... go leap you idiot - you know who you are

Homosexuality is embraced in the American Society

Homosexuality is discouraged in my Homeland - even outlawed..

An arrogant person from either land, would look down upon the other - criticize the other - etc. etc. etc.

The thing NOT payed any attention at all... is soveriegnty -

Individuality on a National level...

Emotionally Immature statements like the quotes above... well, they just show why the government has to keep inventions off the market for 50 years at a time... can't put a gun in a baby's hands - we'd all be at risk

To pretend that the only way a person could react to arranged or unarranged marrige at a young age

Is for them to react through our Psychological Programming, or Socialization --

That is in and of itself ~~~ INFANTILE ~~~

And the next time one of you attacks my freedom of speech with a twisted version of your own "freedom" of speech..

well, let's just say, I won't be hesitating to remind you that Freedom is experienced..

not POSSESSED

or given...

Or does our great "D" believe for one moment that another country doesn't look at the loosey goosey society of chauvanistic women bashing in America, as brainwashing - or manipulation?

some people get deleted from this site for their opinions...

totalitarianism - is catchy
socialism - is mathematically sound
communism - seems communal and altruistic at first
libralism - is a fancy way of saying 'free for all'

all ism's

rid yourself of them and you'd be in chaos of some sort -

they're akin to human nature -

The key is to find the benefit from the losses in a society you are learning about that is not your own...

and then improve your own if you can affect such changes...

But to arrogate to oneself the loft position of judgement or qualifying others - well

Tyranical societies also exist - and according to Plato - each society transitions through all the forms in turn -

there is no "better" - only the best and then the life you're living

a standard - is as good as its productivity

Or are we so soon forgetting the standards of this American Society in its infancy - ?

Oh perfect ones? lol!

This thread was started by someone who was in need of help and advice because some one close to her has been assaulted by a pedophile. I'm sure she feels she can come here and ask for advice about serious matters in the future.

It would appear that the Chained one wishes to chain us all ~

Imagine if you were to have written out a reply or let's call it a "reaction" to the events of a thread...

with the main theme or vein of your argument concerned with not "being judgemental" ect. etc. etc. *

ya' know ~ not founded in a limited perspective - if possible

And then the very next response is about :

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I'm sure she feels she can come here and ask for advice about serious matters in the future.

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I'm almost lamenting the necessity of a response... almost ~

Somehow the Chained Chicken has come under the impression over the course of the last few "tet-a-tets" we've SHARED...

that, I! am incapable of grasping a subject matter, and contributing in an edifying manner to it's evolution - as we all - attempt to find some harmonious overlapping intersection of our varient philosophical bents... and cultural "baggages" if you will...

if he/she continues... I will ~ yes ~ refer everyone to our earlier exchanges...

not much else... between that one and this latest entry...

well, OF COURSE, you'll say it wasn't a direct retort... to my person... of course you will ~ and fail
it's kinda' obvious when you read both ... in other words - don't force your embarassment into the light - you're doing this publicly... if you'd like to go back and forth heatedly - email me...

I generally have always liked your contributions... not aware of what paradigme shifts you've experienced of late... I've been away.. so - no harm, no foul... as yet

OH CHAINED CHICKEN...
what makes you think that I would chime in on a subject I wasn't in SOME way convinced, I myself, were SOMEhow "qualified" to take to another level... not laterally and not down...

Though you seem to be prepared to share intimate details of others as some sort of justification of you as their "champion" ~ as you protect them from me...

you're complex

you actually may need to know that, I, was assaulted by a pedophile as a child...

so the poster of this thread, may actually benefit, from the well rounding out thoughts of someone who has worked his way through it... maintaining his individuality and all that rut...

I'm sure you'll be asking for proof...
And then the poster of this thread and I can go back in forth and reminise about the gore of our horrors and the phoenix like rebirth...

for your pleasure?

You've taken me completely out of context a second time... I can only assume you! are on a personal little ride here with me.. so I'll invite you to chat privily - through email - and we can work through our obvious differences...

If you refuse that

Then I'll only ask that you respond to the substance of my own contributions in the future ~

maybe even this time... ya' know, try again... no apologia necessary...

IF not... well ~ you know me, helpful to a fault

have a good weekend... I am

lol!

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This thread was started by someone who was in need of help and advice because some one close to her has been assaulted by a pedophile. I'm sure she feels she can come here and ask for advice about serious matters in the future.

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ya , chained I think ya have a very valid point.

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My friend's 11-year-old cousin admitted today that her step-father has been sexually abusing her for five years. She didn't understand what he was doing to her until she had sex education.
She's confronted her mother, but she won't accept what her daughter says (though I'm not sure if the daughter has revealed all).

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I've talked to child protection services, and just as my friend said, we can't remove her from that house without evidence, preferably visual. The girl tried to set up a camera once, but her stepfather found it.

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Kind of makes one feel as if she has no recourse?

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He's got some sexual dysfunction as well. He's religious too. Many of the branches of this family has a history of sexual abuse, including my friend, one of the few members of that family who's sane. She's having flashbacks of what she went through years ago.

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Why? What makes a person sick enough to do something like this?

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