Generation Gaps - Believer / Non-believer?

I believe generation "gaps" are manufactured tools of large governments from across the world...

Why do this?

For social engineering purposes...

Disjointedness among the populace means no unified voice or action from the population you seek to benefit or control.

Why keep changing the Dictionary meaning of words... nearly every year?

We don't want the bible changed but accept it from Websters?

Please comment freely -

I'll try to understand.

I'm talking to myself again....!

I hope I'm not so forward thinking that no one can or would want to respond...

Simplify it or over complicate it but all views and no posts is embarrassing...

not for me though

sorry, just not sure I understand the thread, could you explain a little more what you're thinking.

Sure not a prob -

For the Bible readers especially will get it this way I'll state -

When the people all spoke one language on the Earth, (in the Story not so unlike today)

They got kina' "heady" - or arrogant and decided to build a "Tower" to heaven and reach "God"...

According to the story for some undefined reason God didn't take too kindly to this and

"Confounded the languages"

The result described in the story detailed how the people became unable to coordinate their construction project and they ended up finding like - tounged ones and went their seperate ways...

So the Tower of Babel went and goes unfinished to this day.

Regardless of the right and wrong of confounding the progress of the human race... it was an efffective tool to divide and conquer their efforts / progress / whatever...

I feel the governing bodies of the world (G8) have mirrored this technique... through many variations of controlling trigger points.. mostly the arts and through all types of passive and active education ...

Because they continue to recycle all STYLES of hair and dress and Music... why are they feeling it necessary to confound language instead of recycling it too?

if that's even possible...

The division this creates... not having a standard enforced for the usable language and acting as if it is the will of the people..

One place where a standard or blanket language is used and is shown to be a cohesive society is China...

5000 years later... or more without losing their overall culture and with relative peace by comparison to the "so-called" Western Civilization of which most of the readers are a part.

Once is a coincidence... Twice dennotes a pattern...

Like two points in space or on paper can be connected by a line... which is a simple pattern...

A pattern indicates a plan

A plan a objective

The resultant generation gap is maybe a direct byproduct of planning (I believe)...

The confounded language may be wholy or in part responsible.

No need for a theory if there's a pattern...

It only takes two for a conspiracy.

I have a daughter and fear the generation gaps and all the fall out from it.

Again, defend peace

violently if need be.

Then it's sure.

hmm... not sure I understand still what you are saying?!

How can governments create the generation gaps you are referring to? Surely the language shifts are due to the younger generations themselves trying to create their own identities and marks on society. OK the media create shifts in thinking but this is only driven by society isn't it? Fashion and trends are due to socital shifts not governments. Sorry I might be being really thick I'm trying to understand what you mean by these generation gaps and confounding languages??

Well Mystical Lass - (Sorceress)

As you know not much takes place in a vacumme...


If not, nothing does..

Here's an example of how the government benefits from a negative - (which we should all learn to do and can be turned to nefarious purposes as well)

Sadaam Hussein - Hanged on a noose

Iraq - Invaded and occupied by my fellow Marines for near a decade now...

By INITIALLY backing up Sadaam as leader of Iraq, America created tension in the Middle Eastern Region... because the "natives" didn't want such a powerful country as America interferring in their local public or private policies...

America is REALLY powerful so any influence exercised often seems like or is a takeover attempt... we always will defend our own interests first like any other nation (right)

After about 10 years of supporting Sadaam Hussein - America changed its "tune"... Sadaam became the worst thing since cigarettes...

Why

By that time so many other Middle Eastern powers had identified themselves as opposed to our involvement in the region that America no longer needed Sadaam or any of them really...

Once you know where and who your enemies are then you can take aim

It was Strategy

Take a look through a small book all Officers in the Marine Corps are made to study - Sun Tzu - "The Art of War"

Explaines it without the bells and whistles...

By getting your enemy to reveal themselves before they are prepared to defeat or deal with you at all you place them on the battlefield where they cannot win against you... unprepared..

The benefit of Sadaam was to identify potential future enemies.

The benefit defines the culpability... or potential guilt

Every Nation on Earth benefits from the disorder created by any degree of generation gap

How

There could be no Revelutionary War of the Founding Fathers if England had prepared the population like this first..

YES YOU ARE RIGHT

To a varying degree all the problems that are called "gaps" tend to occur very naturally...

And in our country - there is a disporportionate amount of disjointedness between generations seperated by less than 2 decades..

Very! Unusual....!

Nothing happens in a vaccumme... spell it how you want

Never could figure out how to spell vaccume...

Look at Microsoft... every couple of years they change the system for the computer...

But the Corporate Entities in America don't update NEARLY as often... for those with this exposure and or exposure to Government employ...

The Gov. changes their computers and operating systems at a rate of about every 10 years...

They NEED the continuity... WHY

What is the value of continuity between the old man retiring and his replacement

And the New Hires

Important there, why not in families

If Microsoft continues... changing unecessarily... by the time my daughter (2 and a half years old) is 20...

We will both be computer literate but probally not be on the same page at all...

Review my initial thread here and this answer...

They go together well enough to get the idea across... I hope...

if not let me know in your next reply...

Thanks for reading.

The most important thing in a relationship Communication.

Peace -

Dwayne

Thankyou for your patience with my social ignorance.
I will never be a sociologist or an economist, understanding social infrastructure is not my best subject and political stuff just sends me to sleep because I just do not understand it all. I know I'm thick, I'm an ignorant lass, my brain is that of an artist all glitter and clouds.

Freedom is more universal, and therefore more True.

Free - spirits are the same.

Sorry for the snore... warn you better next time.

Wow you think just like myself. I half expect to be shot down by the "government" one of these days. I really ought to watch what I say sometimes. I might post some idea's I have concerning government.

Ach why not.... Give me a couple of mins. It might be as simple as a copy and paste job.

Oh let me tell you something crazy.

What if the government was designed to cover the secret government up? I have loads of ideas concerning this but am going to let you guys think about it because thats how people learn. But if you really want me to explain I will because it will be fun. Please note this is only speculation and is not neccisarly true. But really we could be run by intellectual alians that taught the greeks and egyptions what they know. And the presidents and stuff are only puppets designed to blind us by fake propaganda and bull crud thus wars exist to keep us occupied. These alians walking among us and we don't even know it. They don't need to be from another planet but they may be very cleaver as to know what to do to run the world. And I bet even the presidents of countries don't even know it because they are so blatently dumb that they think is all the world is about and really it is so much more. It's like the early mormons know JS. And so these stories are passed on to the point that most are lost and we are living in what we think is real and true but forgetting major events in history because many things were secret. Like JS was a free mason. How many Mormons know that? We don't even know the founder of the church we only know what we are told. These alians will live longer than us. Like the 3 nephites as such.

I was reading a book earlier by Roger Penrose, "Shadows of the mind". I really like his prologues. In this one he talks of a little girl in a cave with her dad. He is looking at some plants he is growing in the darkness of the cave, and the little girl, Jessica notices a boulder wedged above the entrance of a cave. She is worried that it might fall down and trap her and her dad in the cave and he says he knows it won't fall out because it has been there for such a long time and hasn't fallen out. Her reply was that it is more likely to fall out soon because it has been there for a long time. He insisted that because it was there for a long time it was less likely to fall out and therefore was not worried that it might trap them. So the girl was like just imagine it did happen they wouldn't be able to breathe or see, and so her dad said there would be a crack at the top where light from the sun would shine in and they would be able to breatheand she though they could live off of all the plants her dad was growing. Then he said something like if they were to be trapped then he wouldn't want to be with anyone other than her and her mum of course. And so she said " 'I want mummy in here too, in my question, because I'm going to suppose that the boulder fell down before I was even born and you and mummy had me here in the cave, and I grew up in here...and we could keep alive by eating all your funny plants.' " then her father said nothing and she continued " ' Then I would never have known any life except this here in the cave. How could I know what the real world outside was like? Could I know that there are trees in it, and birds and rabbits and other things? Of course you could tell me these things, because you'd known them yourselves before you got trapped, but how would I know-I mean how would I really know myself, rather than having to believe what you said?' " Then her father went on to talk about seeing the shadows of the trees and birds and other stuff through the crack when the sun goes by. And eventually to him doing conferences for all the other people that were to soon be trapped in the cave also as there was plenty of funny plants and he would need people there to prove the earth travells around the sun by the movement of the sun on the cave wall even though those people would prefer that the sun was moving around the cave because they couldn't accept that the cave was moving and so he would do experiments to show them the things of the outside world.

I thought of "Plato's cave" when I read this.

The Allegory of the Cave
Plato realizes that the general run of humankind can think, and speak, etc., without (so far as they acknowledge) any awareness of his realm of Forms.

The allegory of the cave is supposed to explain this.

In the allegory, Plato likens people untutored in the Theory of Forms to prisoners chained in a cave, unable to turn their heads. All they can see is the wall of the cave. Behind them burns a fire. Between the fire and the prisoners there is a parapet, along which puppeteers can walk. The puppeteers, who are behind the prisoners, hold up puppets that cast shadows on the wall of the cave. The prisoners are unable to see these puppets, the real objects, that pass behind them. What the prisoners see and hear are shadows and echoes cast by objects that they do not see. Here is an illustration of Plato's Cave:



From Great Dialogues of Plato: Complete Texts of the Republic, Apology, Crito Phaido, Ion, and Meno, Vol. 1. (Warmington and Rouse, eds.) New York, Signet Classics: 1999. p. 316.


Such prisoners would mistake appearance for reality. They would think the things they see on the wall (the shadows) were real; they would know nothing of the real causes of the shadows.

So when the prisoners talk, what are they talking about? If an object (a book, let us say) is carried past behind them, and it casts a shadow on the wall, and a prisoner says "I see a book," what is he talking about?
He thinks he is talking about a book, but he is really talking about a shadow. But he uses the word "book." What does that refer to?


Plato gives his answer at line (515b2). The text here has puzzled many editors, and it has been frequently emended. The translation in Grube/Reeve gets the point correctly:
"And if they could talk to one another, don't you think they'd suppose that the names they used applied to the things they see passing before them?"

Plato's point is that the prisoners would be mistaken. For they would be taking the terms in their language to refer to the shadows that pass before their eyes, rather than (as is correct, in Plato's view) to the real things that cast the shadows.
If a prisoner says "That's a book" he thinks that the word "book" refers to the very thing he is looking at. But he would be wrong. He's only looking at a shadow. The real referent of the word "book" he cannot see. To see it, he would have to turn his head around.


Plato's point: the general terms of our language are not "names" of the physical objects that we can see. They are actually names of things that we cannot see, things that we can only grasp with the mind.

When the prisoners are released, they can turn their heads and see the real objects. Then they realize their error. What can we do that is analogous to turning our heads and seeing the causes of the shadows? We can come to grasp the Forms with our minds.

Plato's aim in the Republic is to describe what is necessary for us to achieve this reflective understanding. But even without it, it remains true that our very ability to think and to speak depends on the Forms. For the terms of the language we use get their meaning by "naming" the Forms that the objects we perceive participate in.

The prisoners may learn what a book is by their experience with shadows of books. But they would be mistaken if they thought that the word "book" refers to something that any of them has ever seen.
Likewise, we may acquire concepts by our perceptual experience of physical objects. But we would be mistaken if we thought that the concepts that we grasp were on the same level as the things we perceive.

Can you see why I link this to the govenment? In fact this pretty much applies to life.

So - "Washing My Pirate" -

Am I to understand that you feel it is beyond the power of the government of any nation to do anything but create a generation gap due to the fact that they can only allude to the form of a thing and never truly tell what a thing is...?

And is this because we (all of us can not turn our collective heads in the cave of our ignorance... since the fire flickers between us and the wall that we peer against that we call reality...?

Ver astute... and illuminating... and affirming... therefore all truth is lies... all lies are truth

complete freedom is chaos...

perfection is found in imperfection.

brilliant indeed.

if i "get" your meaning.

if that's even possible.

The Cave.

Plato.

Is Wisdom Politics then?

I believe so. and may be in error... perfectly so.

People of different "generation gaps" tend to have a different outlook on life. The outline of most peoples scope for "normal" or acceptable behaviour and such is generally ingrained in our being before we hit adulthood. In my opinion, it's all down to neptune and what sign it's actually moving through. As neptune is the planet that governs dreams and ideals, and as it takes a whole generation to move into the next sign, it makes perfect sense to me that its all a simple matter of astrology!