Are insane people really insane

Think about it... There's people who tell you that they see flying gaint insects or gaint caterpillers telling them what to do. Is this all physcologically make up or is it their perception of these astral planes, relatively speaking dimensions? Feel free to kill this topic and ask questions.

psychologically speaking I read somewhere once that people who suffer from certain hallucinatory conditions such as schizophrenia had some sort of brain imaging done on them during an hallucination and it was discovered that there brain actually does physically see or hear what they say they are seeiing and hearing. So either the brain is somehow interpreting sensual information incorrectly, or they are in fact seeing, hearing smelling or tasting something everyone else can't.

there's a simple test of continuity. If schizophrenics saw the same things that we don't then it would be them who have higher sensory acuteness of outside reality. But, as far as I'm aware, most schizophrenics sense something different.

So I'm led to the conclusion that it isn't that there is more outside of the observer but that the observer is unhealthy.

in your perspective, healthy can be viewed in so many ways

Philip, biologists were baffled by a creature they found called a humanzee. They called it Oliver and the reason it was called a humanzee was because of speculation that a chimpanzee and human had mated.

However, dna results showed otherwise. The fascinating thing is that relative to humans, this was more 'evolved' than the chimp, walking more straightly and with clearly more intelligence. So why did the other chimps reject him?

In my view the chimp wasn't evolved, or if you like too evolved. Simply, he wasnt going to pass on his genes. So, this was a freak, a one-off, something that nature didn't really want to keep. Although we may say that some attributes were better, and there was a plus side to all this, and perhaps rightly so; he was evolutionarily, biologically, naturally preservationally unhealthy.

Thats a sane answer of healthines. In relation to schizophrenia or insanity; two questions spring to mind:

1. Would a mother prefer her baby to be insane, or have schizophrenia?

2. Is the insane or schizophrenic person happy or not?

If the answer to both is no then of course the person is unhealthy. Feel free to play with words like healthiness, etc. go looking for the mice in the room, but the big obvious elephant of an answer is there; just to save you some time.

An interesting topic . . .

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there's a simple test of continuity. If schizophrenics saw the same things that we don't then it would be them who have higher sensory acuteness of outside reality

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Yes, but on the other hand look at the mistaken conceptions that existed for centuries about the earth being flat? Those things which we perceive as the world exist yet physics tells things about that existence! The concept of the atom and chemical reactions which form our existence vary from individual to individual but we no less accept the reality of their existence?

For a 1000 new thoughts, 999 of those will be illusions.

Sure, its great to look for that 1, but dont forget that 999 is still much bigger than 1. Genius and insanity go hand in hand, and nothing could really evolve without so-called revolutions. But, as is the case above, for every 1 genius there are 999 mystics. So, maybe 1 schizophrenic is right, and labelled wrongly, but laws, rules, etc. always are there to operate for consistency of progress in the general rather than dissolution. As for the reality of partciles and sub-atomic particles and the idea that they think, thats what science is trying to carve away at now, and to this end, failing quite badly.

As for the composition of ourselves and the variance of physical composition at the microscale, just remember that after 7 years all of the microscale atoms and therefore chemcials that make us have been changed. Now were free to speculate further as to what this means, etc. But, again, for every 1 speculation 999 will be illusionary. Until one is proven, or gives a test to be proven, they will remain as such.

Just for a trend check, we're living in a time now, cturtle, where the thought of imagimation, etc. because of new physicists, that acceptance of new ideas is becoming more liberal. And that has sound reason. The downside, is that many people are looking for the next revolution, or new thought. The strange thing is, I think, that new thoughts, or revolutions, are actually borne where there is the most law, or cynicism, precisely because of the risk involved and the reward to be gained from overcoming it. Its exactly the same analogy someone gave me that lawyers are taught to be subjective and journalists are taught to be objective. But, ironically enough, the person created, or even the person attracted to each subject, tends to be the opposite.

you're all right including me and all the scepts. but what if 3/5 of them are actually teling the truth?

Then theres a proposal for an experiment.

wouldnt say expierement on a scientific scale considering it's the lines of facts and laws and proof are so definite.

I dont quite get your post there philip, but I think it means that scientific tests are testable, grandeous, pinacles of objectiveness.

Well if we're proposing that 3/5 people are in fact somehow sane, and somehow have access to something before unexplored. Well then we're now in true research and we've already over-stepped that mark.

So, on those grounds, the point of this experiment would be to relate something that we can't observe to something that is observable. I don't know if what your proposing exists. And I doubt it does. I reckon insane people really have an over-active illusionary imagination rather than a real imagination.

But, There are tests. For example, if they see a past event, does it affect other electromagnetic forces? does it affect anything nearby that normally wouldn't?

These are of course, vague. A good example of a specific test is to be found with people who say they have out of body experiences. Some claim they can look down at their own body when they have out of body experiences. Ok, fine. If they could describe something they couldn't ordinarily see by common convention, say a small plant on a shelf out of their view, and they can describe this then their statement is plausible.

Indeed, if they see something as real, and because light receptors work by receiving light then we should be able to observe this also, as a deviation in electromagnetics, light being a property of electromagnetics.

I dont know if you've seen the film a Beatiful mind with John Nash and his battle with shichzophrenia. This films far-fetched, but he 'solves' his problem of the illusionary girl he sees by realising she never gets old; she never ages. We could look further into the workings of the brain. But as of yet; theres no need. And I dont know any insane people who work on the same wavelength. Genius' at least come to the same conclusions and do agree.

Insane people are unhealthy.

There's a deeper and more self completing way of "testing" this theory out. Well let me put it in this way, im not making conclusions, i am open to all possibilities, but it's intregueing to go over every single one by asking your self these questions. The better we understand ourselves the better we understand our physical and spritual settings.

Phil, in reguarding your first post

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There's people who tell you that they see flying gaint insects or gaint caterpillers telling them what to do. Is this all physcologically make up or is it their perception of these astral planes, relatively speaking dimensions?

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Are these allusions or delusions?
Consider dreams, we all seem to have & need them? Yet our dreams are pretty much related to each individual, things like dream books tend to give some dream perceptions (form) as having generally a common aspect to the sub or unconcious mind. As dreams, the properties (size, etc.) tend to be proportional physichologicial allusion to their physical presence in the dream. Are all dreaming we do fall into this catagory or only those of intensity or repetitive nature? A coomon dream about falling doesn't always result or end when you hit the floor, right.

yes?

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These are of course, vague. A good example of a specific test is to be found with people who say they have out of body experiences. Some claim they can look down at their own body when they have out of body experiences. Ok, fine. If they could describe something they couldn't ordinarily see by common convention, say a small plant on a shelf out of their view, and they can describe this then their statement is plausible.

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I agree that some experiences are more than allusions of the mind, a subjective reality . . .http://www.captaincynic.com/thread/13791/astral-travel-projection.htm
In mediation one may sit upright but in hypnotic trance normally you lie or recline. Normally when I come out of a hypnotic trance I find myself in basically the same posture so the mental image of self had maintained that aspect. Although I had consciously rolled my head back and placed my tongue to one side to not restrict breathing. I was looking at myself coming up out of my body while looking at myself were I lay upon the couch. Mentally I was seeing from the perspective of with my face pointed toward the ceiling and the I which rose faced down as if I were doing a push-up with a mirror beneath my face. Now for the strange part as I move toward the ceiling I was still looking down at my body & was startled to see a very different view of self. I looked more like a rag doll that someone had casually dropped into a chair. One leg was still bent and upright against the back of the couch, where I had order my body to move itself forward. That my head extend beyond the edge of the couch lowering the head producing unobstructed air passage strait through the mouth & into the lungs. In trying to find a position to place the tongue would not obstruct the air passage. I had turn my head to the side & the tip of the tongue protruded from the corner of my mouth, a very different posture than I had normally used! I thought 'if someone was to enter now, they would have certainly think I was dead.'