Would society be better without money? - Page 5

I truly appreciate your views Ironwood.
I guess I'm very idealistic, and it didn't occur to me at the time to question the way society is made up (has been made up in the past, and may well be made up in the future).
I guess the definition of society I had in mind, was pretty much anyone who uses it, like people who are part of a society of money.
I guess there are two scary things about the control of money being in too few people's hands. One, is that it's scary that by their power, the people who control the wealth, control us to a great degree. But, second, it's probably scary for them that we could take it away. But this is also scary for us, as an unjust person may do large scale things to hold onto their wealth and power.
I believe that there is some sort of conspiracy there... Thanks for the link, by the way!
At this point I will recognise although infinitely less powerful the possibilities of beneficial conspiracies (try not laugh though!) placebos, surprises, the answers to exam questions (before the exam). Yes! That's not quite the same as 'I'm being taken advantage of by someone who has more wealth than me, not necessarily by ability!'
Money is a tool... Knives are tools... Who teaches you can define how they're used...
I admit that it isn't capitalism does not dictate who owns what portion is held by what elements of society, that is in our hands. However, with ownership comes resources, investment returns, industriousness productivity, and soon if we're not all doing the same thing, inequality in terms of money happens. This is not seen as a problem, until one guy owns an entire country.
And, even without Capitalism, there could easily be inequality, especially if conspiracies and greed over distribution of resources is present.
I was not one hundred percent about wanting to give up money, and started the thread, and there have been some very good arguments for and against. The people for think that it may bring about a greater more equal system, where there is bread on everyone's plate. Those against, see that money has done a lot for us, and provides incentives for those who truly need it to get by.
I guess one thing is that element of power-hungriness, and given investment, just about everything going your way. Not too many people without a formidable conscience would want to give that up.
I guess it could be like a drug to them. It being money. And don't forget what money can bring being a factor also, like respect, temperance, all smiles. 'Don't worry sir! I'm right on it!' instead of 'Oh! My car used to be here!'...
I thank you for bringing up the topic of power and corruption!
I ask you to consider, what tools make these things more possible?
What you brought up was well founded and important...
But, perhaps consider where people have tried this before, and how it could be improved, to the point where what was 'sensible' in theory, can become successful in practice... Keep in mind, that not everything works first time, and that some great things are always being improved on...

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Money is not the issue. Money is but a tool.

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There is always desire for control.

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Communism will not work with pathetic self-centered jagoffs like us.

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And thus, we've come full circle.

Money - being the tool of indicating somethings value - seems to me like it would become irrelevant once humans fully realize everyone is of equal value. Yet, we are comparative creatures, and will probably always push one another to work harder. Those lacking in the pursuit of betterment will be devalued.

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once humans fully realize everyone is of equal value.

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Very nice. Who actually practices this? why?

Compare to "once humans fully realize everything is of equal value". Then think on lines of money.

The solution is to enforce serious punishment for greed, corruptive behavior, taking advantage of others, and common stealing be it conned or otherwise.

There are no strongly enforced punishments for crimes that deter these behaviors. Once certain laws are passed and old ones broken along the lines for such behavior then over time the equality will be achieved. And the striving for money and greed will be removed and the focus will shift away to what will eventually be achieved.

Making the ones striving for power, control, and greed will be removed from society and then the rest can focus on preservation instead of what we have now.

Remove the current laws that protect this behavior and Viola you have your money-free society.

GET REAL PEOPLE AND SEE THE LIGHT, EVOLVE AND WEED OUT THE GREED.

ide rather live with money than have more laws projected upon me. using the government as a tool to achieve this no-money society would only further the value of money itself. As usual, laws would have an opposite effect. money has been rooted much further into our lives than just being used to buy things. it has become a symbol of class and social standings. these standings would not be so readily given up by the elite. it would be a tragedy to resort to the use of laws to achieve a mission that relies on values and morals. a task of this caliber would require a social revolution. possibly an enlightenment.

A revolution of enlightenment is the goal to remove the power over others. This is the path of the Way of the How?

finally some one gets it. mahalo


Fearlessnotcareless.com

fearless, i read ur blog on having no money. i like your thinking and i love your mission! good luck. im glad some one is taking a stand to stop the selfish belief that another person has the right to project their rules on other people. its completely arrogant and fake!

We have to widen our view and stop having such norrow vision, sure it all sounds great for developed countires with fertile soil like the UK and USA, but then think of how places like Africa would survive, no money = no income from exports, no income means no aid for the country (and obiously we couldnt provide aid, we have to labour all day so that we can eat!) therefore millions starve and die, not to mention all disabled people who cant labour, people wont spend half their day providing for a disabled person when their family has to eat, and of course there would be no progress, no fuel, and everyone would be a farmer, the whole community spirit thing doesnt work ! and then there are the low lifes who will steal rather than work, and with nobody making alarms, and no police, it wouldnt be hard for the thieves, we hae money for a reason, we cant function without it.

Nice that you join us Chaz321...

I guess, I should just say that, even though there may be no money, we could all still have jobs, and contribute our time and efforts for those less fortunate... We'll still need specialists, etc.

We'd still provide foreign aid, and try to stop thievery.
The community spirit could work, given the right attitude...

I guess what people generally think is that it wouldn't work, because of genuine attachments to the capitalist system.
I'm not sure, but would be interested in trialling it...
You could do it one community (commune) at a time.

Have another think about it...
If you had all that you wanted or needed, would you want more as insurance? (like an excessive amount of money in the bank)
Understand, we would still have stores of life's necessities (like food, fuel, clothing,etc.) and the money is no great good if there's nothing there to buy...

First of all I think it is sick how we Americans have allowed money to completely dominate our lives. Today the American government promises us freedom, but money has got us entangled in almost every way. It's got us in living in fear of depression, inflation, and losing our jobs. The only problem is that as a society we are totally convinced that money is a necessity. For this to work every one would need to change their values and ride our society of materialism. I truly don't think the general public is ready for this kind of system. There is no way to ride these values and concepts and if and if they were stricken form society I feel that some other meaning less object would become the new currency.

I saw this program on TV last night that made me think about this post.
They talked about nurses (and teachers,etc) not getting paid the money they deserve for the difficult job they do. Things like doing a 12 hour shift in the early hours of a Sunday morning.
They discussed a lot of aspects. But it was clear that opinion is that what people get paid for what they do for the community is seriously out of whack.

I would have to agree with Black gold people in these professions in now way get the salaries they deserve.
National averages from the new education association
Teacher $32,488
Researcher
(non-technical) $41,667
Management Trainee $41,864
Registered Nurse $41,616
Accountant (public) $46,289
Field Engineer $52,277

Some alarming statistics:

The National Center for Education Statistics found that 48 percent of teachers quit in 2001 because of poor salary or benefits.

According to an Economic Policy Institute study, teachers' inflation-adjusted wages have risen by less than one percent since 1996. Meanwhile, workers at similar skill and educational levels saw their salaries grow by 12 percent during the same period.

The group identified 16 occupations that are comparable to teachers in education and skill requirements. In 2002, EPI found teachers earned $116 less per week than those who had comparable occupations.

I believe we need a system.
Jake

Just thought that the words to "Imagine" by John Lennon fit well in with this topic...


Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Are relationships are indirect with using money and we spend too much time getting and spending it.
By selecting the appropriate minds you can form a co-operative society, where we work together. The wealth in society does not come from money, it comes from knowlege and effort. Knowlege can be efficiently passed on through working with those who know how and not having to waste time at college.
The advantagies of a moneyless society is more time for self development and better relationships.
Those who do not contribute will not benefit from its fruits.
We can supervise ourselves and we don't need leaders or government to make us stay alive.
To those who say this won't work, I have seen it work and it works very well.