The last leg for Atheism - Page 2

Conway, you just fucked up....bad!

Tell dear Conway what is life with God that life is not without God?
What purpose does God give you that you, your life parter, your job, or anything else can't give you? Think about that and I hope you see the folly of your previous post.

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Atheist religions by far have the kinder record as far as wars and atrocities are concerned. The mono-theistic beliefs are especially prone to acts of genocide and war in their endless attempts to wipe out opposing deities. Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism are examples of atheist belief

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i'll admit it, im confused. i thought atheism ment no religion. doesnt it? buddhist still beleive in a heaven, persay, and other religios stuff.
now, i am an atheist. i have no beleif of any god or heaven or religios stand put at all. to me, its all the same. all the same stuff. like how they have 13 different types of corn flakes. and i must admit i get a little insulted whe n they dont listen to the atheist about atheism. through all my time spent on this site i have found that almost every single one of you are confused as to what you beleive. i, on the other hand, am not confuesed. im not trying to say "i kick ass" or anything like that, but im not confused at all, and i never was. ever.

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That without a God, life is more meaningful and free. Some would say that the existence of God is meaningless because it has no verifiable (or testable) consequences and should therefore be ignored

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you were doing really good up untill this part. wrong. now, you might be saying, "but awaken, you dont beleive in right and wrong," in opinions no, but in individual truths, yes. (thankyou summit) we dont have any feeling towards the fact that god does not exist. we do not sit down and wiegh the conseqeunces to see which way best fits us, to beleive or not to. life is nothing more with out a god. it is the same thing it will always be. its life. you live, then die. how can a god change that? its not the end, its the journey? great. cool beans for you, but because we dont think there is a god, our journey would not be changed by any religion because we dont think about it. by nature. we just dont care.

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It is probably 'true' that without a belief in god, the mind is freer to pursue philosophical and scientific enquiries as there is no "god" to simply attribute cause to, when a phenomenon is not understood

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yes. i have found that many times when thinking on a certain subject i allow myself, or have the capability, to think it through far greater than most people. a lot of times people when find one good answer and stop there not thinking of any others. when there are at least four or five that fit. and when i go through all of them, at least all i can find, i generally understand it better than they do. i do not know if this is do to their beleife in god, or my nature to think all things out. i do beleive that my nature to think all things out is partly responsible for my lack of religion.

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Atheism is not a moral stance or a moral choice. Individuals adopt their morals from their context

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correct. i think this is why i have my "nothing is right or wrong" stand put.

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However, try and delve into the human psyche and understand why people would want to believe in God if he didn't exist, or any god for that matter.

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The fact still remains that with out the existence of a God. Then there is no point in liveing. Therefore it is better that he exist. yet some still prefer he does not.

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because they are scared. maybe. maybe because they are told to. maybe because it is their nature to be weak. i say that because weal things lach on to stronger things. thats just the way it is. in sex. in buisness. in school. in everything. i think it is because they have a weak mind.

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Tell dear Conway what is life with God that life is not without God?

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conway... as of this moment your life will not change whether god does, or does not exist, because you beleive he does. it is not better, it is just the way you are. if you need the conformation that you are right, maybe you need a faith check. or an ego check.

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Then there is no point in liveing. Therefore it is better that he exist. yet some still prefer he does not

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it really bugs me when people do this. they give information, opinions even, and then because they have that tiny bit of information they seem to think that they have proven something. thats your opinion ass-hole, and i dont like it when people tell me im wrong because they say so.

whay are you so scared of haveing no point?

i am not scared of that. then again, i am atheist.

(summit plaese give me your definition of an atheist)

Fields says- 'the Theologian is an owl, sitting on an old dead branch in the tree of human knowledge, and hooting the same old hoots that have been hooted for hundreds and thousands of years, but he has never given a hoot for progress'.

Beliefs in a 'God' usually initiate from fear. To one degree or another the theologic religious minds must accept, and believe in, another world; a supernatural or unnatural world, a world filled with imaginary beings called gods, devils, angels, saints, demons, etc. To an Atheist that just sounds foolishly insane!

I do not believe there is a heaven. But even if a real heaven did exist, and for some reason a god chose who went and who didn't, if that god is a good and noble being he will judge me for my value as a human being, and not for my belief in him.

I cannot imagine being happier than I have been already. I live a spiritual, fulfilling life and this approach to life is more than enough for me.

The theologist's mind suffers from the illusion of a "higher morality," and because of that illusion all history runs deep with innocent blood. Such foolish illusions do not comfort the Atheist mind. God contradicts Free Will of all living beings including itself.

'God' himself is more than welcome to share an honest conversation with me. Until he does, I have no reason to trust that anyone is a reliable spokesman for any god. God is no more than an empty abstracted thought provoked by the superstitious mind.

Atheism is the absence of a deity- a hypothetical 'God'. Spirituality and Religion are different. Religion is one form out of many types of spiritualities. Atheists can be spiritual, but they are not religious (in the context of believing in a 'god' ). As I said Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism are examples of atheist belief because there is no deity involved. Of couse as well there are other atheist belief systems, many of them who which aren't labelled, or are personal beliefs.

That without a God, life is more meaningful and free. Some would say that the existence of God is meaningless because it has no verifiable (or testable) consequences and should therefore be ignored. This is usually what an Ignostic believes. Ignosticism is a form of Atheism. Perhaps read into forms of Atheism, it broadened my understanding of beliefs.

Ok, so an Atheist is usually defined as a person who does not believe that any gods exist. It is more than just the knowledge that gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always attempting to understand everything as a part of nature. Some people say that Atheism has a doctrine to question and a dogma to doubt.

Ancient

With all due respect....

No i havent fucked up. For my friend, tell me, what reason is there in haveing a life partner, or a job, or anything else that you mentioned. With out God these things become meaningless. You would say for love, or for money, or you do all these things for a good life. But think. Without God, then when you die. You won't remeber yourt love, your money, or your good life. There is no purpose in doing these things other then a want of a good life. And there is no purpose in a good life with out God. Because without him you won't rember any of it. Only with God is there a reason to have a good life.


Futher more my friend Ancient
Logic says that life is more than any feelings you might get from things of this world. Life partner, jobs, money, or otherwise. For tell me ancient, if these are the things that bring you fulfillment in life, then what is your point. These things are really nothing in the end. (well according to the atheist anyways)

awakend

As to what you say. You are right. There is nothing wrong with being all right with no point. But tell me why you prefer this. Why would you rather not exist. You see what existence can bring. Pleasure, love, happiness, exctasy........just to name a few. Then why would you rather not exist.

Futhermore. Why would you call me an asshole. Did you intend to anger me. I guess you did a little. I apologize for any points I have made that steered from philosopical logic.

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But tell me why you prefer this

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apperently you arent a very good listener.

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we dont have any feeling towards the fact that god does not exist. we do not sit down and wiegh the conseqeunces to see which way best fits us, to beleive or not to. life is nothing more with out a god. it is the same thing it will always be. its life. you live, then die. how can a god change that? its not the end, its the journey? great. cool beans for you, but because we dont think there is a god, our journey would not be changed by any religion because we dont think about it. by nature. we just dont care.

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i have no preference.

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Pleasure, love, happiness, exctasy........just to name a few.

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you seem to think these things do not exist with out god. they do. trust me.

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Then why would you rather not exist.

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if you still dont know the answer to this qeustion, re-read the beggining of this reply.

and...

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thats your opinion ass-hole, and i dont like it when people tell me im wrong because they say so

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thats why. and thankyou, apology accepted.

and conway, as the post below clearly states, you are truly afraid of dying.

"With out God these things become meaningless." You still haven't made a point with this statement.

"You would say for love, or for money, or you do all these things for a good life." To me every life is good.

"Because without him you won't rember any of it." Finally we get to it! You believe that because God alows you to remember your life that it gives meaning. What's the point of living forever dear conway? That adds nothing to our lives. Memory is in the brain that is why before you had a mind to think with you have no memories. Can you tell me what happend, fro your memory, durring the civil war? Is there a memory you can access with that brain of yours in order to give me your first hand account? No because it didn't exist then and when you die it will go with you. And if it doesn't then good for you. It still makes life no better or more purposeful.

Tell me what you believe you'll be like in heaven conway.

It seems to me that you WANT to remember your life in order to feel that it has meaning. So want is what gives purpose. Not God. Idividual wants...
Want is created from consciousness. The empty universe cares not for these things because it can't care. It is nothing but energy. And though our consciousness is trully just energy, romantically it is all else that exists.

OK before I start in on the slew of agreements that's going to be coming let me just point out one little detail I noticed.

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Logic says that life is more than any feelings you might get from things of this world.

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Now... I might buy into this statement if you had replaced the word "logic" with the word "theology" or "religion" but there's no way logic fits here. Now I'll say it here, I am not an atheist or an agnostic. I know perfectly well what I believe. But I also think that logic has absolutely no place in a discussion about religion/beliefs etc.

Now that I've got that out of the way...

I completely agree with what awakened and Ancient have been saying. If you're looking at various religions and thinking "which one will screw me the least" you are most definitely an agnostic. As for needing god to give life meaning. Well this has a whole slew of problems with it one of which was mentioned earlier so I'll use it as an example.

Buddhism has no deity. None whatsoever. Yet (and I'm no Buddhist so forgive me if I step on someone's toes and screw this up) they seem to find great meaning and fulfillment through their beliefs. Thus (and yes this is slightly off topic) it would seem to me that one's belief is what makes life meaningful, not the deity that may or may not be the object of that belief.

As a little side note... I get the almost creepy sensation while reading this thread that when ever someone types "God" with the capital G they mean the Christian God whether or not others actually are referencing Christianity. This could be what's offending people but eh.... how should I know... just a thought.

It sounds like Naturalism has become the new God and Atheism has become the new Christianity.

A statement by a philosopher who lived during the World Wars. I'm sure you can read between the lines of his statement.

Agree/disagree?

Ancient

Apparently I read better then you do. How is it that you do not have any feelings towards God's existence. To say this is tantamount to saying you have feelings about nothing at all. Because If you have any feelings whatsoever about anything, then (in your point of view) you will eventually not exist and all the things you love, or hate, become meaningless in life. That is were I get my logic. What is the point in loveing if we all fade off to none existence in the end.

And most of all, why do we live, if there is no point at all to liveing. Why then are we self aware if there is no point in being self aware. And if you truely beleived in "no point" then there would be nothing from keeping you from blowing your head off. Because all that you do every day from day to day is point less. You make your self suffer all the bad things in existence for the few moments of good, when there is no reason to do it at all.

Futhermore............

At no time have I ever ment any certin "type" of God. I meant the idea of God. Philosophy is not a relegion. It is the search of truth about relegions. Among other things.

Conway, I live my life because it is what I am programmed to do. I accept all things good and bad about life and go along with it fine. Sure I couldn blow my brains out. Or I could do whatever. Just because you think my life is meaningless without God doesn't mean I do.

Then tell me why you live at all. What meaning do you find? And if you follow your programing as you said. Then you are nothing but a robot. Exact same defenition. You have no personality, and no indivdual thought. You are nothing but a collection of atoms. Now that said. You no that's not true. ON the physical level it is of course. But the fact that you sit there typing, (partly in anger) out my accusations of what I personally deam as wrong decesions, is proof that you are an indivdual. And something more than a robot.

Example. If you saw to robots argueing over the existence of God, how absurd would that be.

Belief in a god is unreasonable. An Atheist doesn't need to "prove" the nonexistence of a god. A person who asserts the existence of something will assume the burden of proof. The theist, on the other hand, asserts the existence of a god and must prove the claim. If the theist fails in this task, reasonable people will reject the belief as baseless. For Atheists there is no reason why they should believe in a god.

Theologists haven't proved the existence of a god. Any such attempts have failed. Most philosophers and theologians now accept that belief in a god must rest on faith, not on reason. This is where a theologist's belief fails. By believing on faith abandons the judgment of one's mind. Faith conflicts with reason. Faith doesn't give you knowledge; it only deludes you into believing that you know more than you really do. Faith is intellectually dishonest.

People don't need to believe in a god. To claim that a person needs to believe in the irrational is a prescription for disaster.
Atheism is significant because it is reasonable, and reason is of central importance in human affairs. Atheists prefer the alternative to the morass of irrational doctrines.

The meaning and purpose to life is a matter of personal judgement. Pushing the responsibility onto a hypothetical human constructed thought known as 'god' is an escape, not a solution.