Pascal's Wager

Blaise Pascal says that God is or he is not. Taken one step at a time if He exists (and you believe in Him) then you gain all, if He does not exist you lose nothing. Meanwhile, if you don't believe in Him and He exists you lose all whereas if He does not exist you gain nothing. Therefore, you should believe in Him.

Being a Christian already, I believe in Him without the thought of a reward. But it seems to me that as an atheist this argument would be inclined to persuade me to Christianity.
Just interested in other perspectives for or against this argument.

I believe what I believe because of the logic and spiritual growth that comes along with it. I don't believe in Catholicism or anything for a means of "insurance". To believe in something for means that if your wrong you have a safeguard, you might as well not believe in anything at all. For too believe this means that your not convinced or not assured that what your saying is right.

pascal's wager would hold more validity if it was a clear cut issue of, for example, choosing door #1 or door #2. the concept of belief (and the origin of belief for that matter) introduces a variable that does not fit very well into pascal's progressive argument (as Jacker pointed out above). perhaps we should discuss the origin of beliefs. why do people believe in something or someone? that might generate a number of replies.

im at peace with you myself and everything

perhaps a person who doesnt believe in god also doesn't believe the commandments jesus taught us..

for example thou shall not steal, cheat, have pre-marrital sex, and so on...

therefore by saying that they "dont believe in god" it permites them to lie steal cheat have sex and all these things..

in other words it relieves them to be the person they want to be by believing that there is no god..

so KGB you stated "Meanwhile, if you don't believe in Him and He exists you lose all whereas if He does not exist you gain nothing."

WRONG!!!!!!! you dont "gain nothing"

you gain relief... relief of guilt for all your wrong doings... you free yourself from all commandments

and you also say " if He exists (and you believe in Him) then you gain all, if He does not exist you lose nothing."

WRONG!!!! you lose a lifetime of pleasures

you could have given in to all temptations..
for example to have sex before marrige or with as many people as you want.. and on top of it feel no guilt..


that is all.

Blaise Pascal had good thoughts but
think a little deeper into them

and by the way i deeply believe in god.. i do not question his existance but know it to be factual..

peace

analytical29, i have no problem with your analysis...it is a well thought out response. however, you imply authorship to KGB by saying 'you state', when in fact KGB's post is a summary of portion of pascal's work (it is possible that i am making an incorrect assumption, if so i apologize). it is referred to as 'the super-dominance argument' where pascal applies decision theory and establishes a 2 x 2 matrix that looks something like this:

........................God exists .................God does not exist
believe in God infinite reward ...............status quo
not believe in God infinite punishment ...status quo

the table defines four conditions:
you may believe in God, and God exists, in which case you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
you may believe in God, and God doesn't exist, in which case your loss is finite and therefore negligible.
you may not believe in God, and God doesn't exist, in which case your gain is finite and therefore negligible.
you may not believe in God, and God exists, in which case you will go to hell: your loss is infinite.

as i stated, your analysis is fine, but these are pascal's conditions, not KGB's.

So analytical your whole motivation behind doing good is because you don't want to feel guilt and feel the need for personal reward. You know for someone so religious you should know that Moses brought down and taught the commandments not Jesus.

who is to say with certainty what motivates someone else to do good? the motivation very well may be guilt, or desire for reward, or love, or coincidence, or acceptance, or social conscience, etc. we all have our own reasons at which others can only guess.

i am reluctant to respond to the biblical reference because the book is a magnet for differing interpretations and opinions as to invite a discussion of endless proportions. still, here goes; yes, moses did bring down the commandments and was instrumental in establishing old testament jewish law and the regimented, ritualistic worship. Jesus brought a 'new testament' that superceded the old ways. It was never a matter of guilt or reward, (although I am sure that statement will precipitate the expected round of impassioned denials)...but I have heard it all before.

Jesus lived what He taught. John 13:34 'A new command I give you: Love one another.' no mention of guilt, reward, damnation. just love one another. does not sound very complicated but, regardless of one's beliefs, people seem to have lost their way in how they respond to their fellow human beings. even on this board there have been what appear to be personal attacks designed not to articulate a position but to impugn. if we can't refrain from attempting to hurt each with words, what chance do we have in seeing the end of insane acts like wars and genocide where hatred between people have existed for generations? and we can blame it all on someone else, or something else, or on the Creator, but the responsibility of what happens between people on this planet rests in what we say, do, and think.

i offer this post in the spirit of communication and open dialogue, but i am cringing in anticipation of someone's assualt.

your are wise beyond your age phacops.. yes i do apologize for what seemed like an attack at KGB, i only meant that he re-stated someone elses idea that could possibly have deeper meaning

jaker i have many motives.. once agian i apologize, i thought it was jesus who gave the commandments not moses.. but im still a deeply devoted believer in god.. it doesnt mean that i know all the bibilical things. it doesnt even mean im religous, just that i believe there has to be a creator and a deeper meaning to life than we all know
so plz forgive me for my ignorance

i do believe we should try to love one another too.. and so i will lessen my "personal attacks" realizing that we are all human and i will not assualt you.. rather i will try to agree with you, see your point.. and give you mine