Buddhist riddles/interesting philosophies - Page 3

...well considering the thread requests philosophical discussion

and I m sure u must have heard buddhists sayings such as 'we must rid ourselves of our thoughts' etc?
Unlike other religions, the main aim of Buddhisim is enlightnment. Let me ask you, do the 'getting close with God' experiances of devoutents of other religions have anything to to with intelligence? These experincaes which disraged intelligence are at the very base of Buddhisim, thus intelliegence has got very little to do with Buddhisim.

well if u were a buddhist monk or some who was well versed in 'koans'(what these questions are called) there would be no need for discussion. But since these are not ordinary questions in which the answer is not logical, we need to understand them.

I figure a buddist response to the riddle to be something like, "It is unimportant how to get the chicken out, only that the chicken is alive is important." "all people are in bottles with no way out." It's probably something like that.

no, koans are given to diciples, and when they solve one many get a taste of enlightment. A Buddhist Roshi has said, 'suppose here is a completely blind man who trudges along leaning on his stick and depending on his intuition. The role of the koan is to mercilessly take the stick away from him and to push him down after turning him around. Now the blind man has lost his sole support and intuition and will not know where to go or how to proceed. He will be thrown in the abyss of despair. In this same way, the koan will mercilessly take away all our intellect and knowledge. In short, the role of the koan is not to lead us to satori(enlightnment) easily, but on the contrary to make us lose our way and drive us to despair.'
This was said by Zen master Yasutani.

and most often the answer can be something like a clap of the hands, or waving of a fan, the roshi(kind of preist) will be able to tell by the conduct of their diciples wheather they are enlightned and truly know what they mena by these answers, and two pupils can give two different answers, but both can be right.
For example, in one koan,'what is your face before your parents are born' a pupil in his answer made a motion of about to slap the teacher, and he was consequently passed and was deemed to have acquired shallow enlightnment.

Yes correct Angel of Death, and each koan is a window that shows the whole truth but just from a single vantage. It is interesting that koans cannot be transmitted in words; cannot be explained in writing; and cannot be measured by reason, yet it can be understood.

Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind. One said, "The flag moves." The other said, "The wind moves." They argued back and forth but could not agree. Hui-neng, the sixth Patriarch, said: "Gentlemen! It is not the flag that moves. It is not the wind that moves. It is your mind that moves."

yes, in other words, it is not the flag or wind that moves, it is I that moves. The bird doesn't sing, it is I that sings, and I am the song, and I am the listener.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead ... only try to realize the truth."
"What truth?"
"There is no spoon."
"There is no spoon?"
"Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."

but it is not truelly ur self that bends but your mind. For techically nothing can live with out the mind but the mind can live with out the body. Also death can not exist with out life but life can exist without death.

Your statement is logic (but that is not the aim). The whole point of koans is to reason beyond logic and rationality. Your mind is your one and only individual reality. Its about creating flexibility of the mind, and thus have a 'better' understanding of ourselves.

Interesting, Let's see . . . what is it you are saying?
That the wind does not blow or that the flag does not move correspondingly to the force upon it??
Theese are only conjectures of the wind blowing through your mind???
Hmm . . . thy will be done in the earth as in the heavens?
Then heaven [spiritual] & earth [physical] exist!
So why is it that so many seems to have such problems with this paradox [duality] in the nature of their being?
Soory but Ihad to go out but I did note a bilboard along the way that did give me pause to think. An ad for some church, stating at the cross kneel then turn right. Aside from the obvious connatation [cross =>crossroads in life & Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father], When you come to Father then Jesus would be at His rightside which would be [to your left] the left turn onto the road?

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Interesting, Let's see . . . what is it you are saying?
That the wind does not blow or that the flag does not move correspondingly to the force upon it??

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No, it is based upon the spiritual realization that you and the universe are one, which I m sure u must have heard of before.

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Hmm . . . thy will be done in the earth as in the heavens?
Then heaven [spiritual] & earth [physical] exist!

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if I understand u correctly, yes, the spirirtual is linked witht he physical. Ultimately though, there is no spiritual or eartly 'world', only one true reality. My face, peronality, who my parents etc only make up the conception we have of ourselves, through which we define ourselves-it is not our true nature, it does not answer the question 'Who am I'.

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So why is it that so many seems to have such problems with this paradox [duality] in the nature of their being?

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The problem arises because of the 'ego', the conception we have of ourselves which arises because we mistake the brain to be ourselves.

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When you come to Father then Jesus would be at His rightside which would be [to your left] the left turn onto the road?

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Ur lookin at it the wrong way, as you are the father and you are Jesus, in other words there is only one reality, every single thing else is an illusion.

Nice I liked it but then if they were following Christ, His right would be their right as well?

Just remember that koans can free the mind from formal logic and deductive processes, but it doesn't deny logic.