Chaos theory - Page 3

for the first stage philosophize about "i" from being skeptical to figuring out what i is or isnt on a certain level.. then after that if you came to the same conclsuion as i did (or [persrhpas not) you can really take it further.. that last sentence might seem a bit vague as well ill come back.. would just like to hear others idea's first around this topic.. and also wht we can and cant be skeptical of if it goes in that direction.. its fun like a puzzel in a tiny way

The 'I' refers to the individual, hence individual reality.
Unless 'I think, therefore I am' has a direct connection to the chaos theory for you, then back to the chaos theory now please.

'It' was the best of times; 'it' was the worst of times.

'It was; thereore 'it' is for 'it' has been brought up into concious but 'it' has changed. The future may change the past.

summit..going back kind of to chaos theory..to an earlier post of yours on free will vs determinism

i think that the two can be reconciled--we dont know even a significant number of the variables that cause our decisions, so as far as we are concerned we have free will, even if it is an illusion and we are a complete product of our environment(which i believe). As thinking organisms possessing the illusion of free will, if u introduce the idea that reality is an individual experience and is relevant to the individual mostly in how it affects them, specifically their ideas/attitudes/mindset, then this illusion of free will becomes the reality...we dont know what is behind the veil of this illusion, so the illusion is what is important.

Yes indeed, the illusion of a free will within an individual is their own individual reality. Such feelings of control are illusions; we are just ignorant of all the irresistible forces acting upon us. We assume in everyday life that everything has a cause; we can not help but believe that every event has a cause. We only perceive that we can change our actions and behavior. However if one is to make a deterministic system of thinking, the ideology of 'free will' is wiped away. I do believe, therefore that 'free will' is an illusion.

I believe that the chaos phenomena will increasingly become intensified in the near future, in specific regards to climate change. What are your thoughts?

what forces are we ignorant to?
it sounds as though you are implying that you belive in predestination. or at the least it sounds as though we have no control over our will. im just curious what you mean because to me it sounds like you are implying that we are all products of nature who can only will what nature allows us to.

no hes saying our will as well is casued.. so we can will all we want but there may be casues exteranl and internal to that. soit will happen that wa no matter what including every reason why im typing and thniking whatim thinking now long term short term influnces.. so even though we can ;choose' (even though i think thats limited enough.. still can only happen one way) to willl any of our casued desires.. we may still not have the free will depends defintion of free wil athou

are these factors natural or are they simply the way our experiences have shaped our inclination towards things?

If by "intensified" you mean studied more, then I have to agree Summit, as chaos as a science is gaining popularity and one of its main applications is weather prediction and understanding.

Navin: well its quiet scary to know that humans have the capability to alter and modify chaos (as they are right now). However most of these factors are natural.


cordelllain: I agree with you cordelllain. By "intensified" I meant, that the frequency of chaos will become more common. That it will become more obvious that global warming is happening (as it is right now), and destroying the earth's natural equilibrium.

When it comes to the natural weather patterns, using chaos theroy at a fundamental level, we can't say that this isn't just another aspect of it and natural, not humans changing it.

Same thing with free will, we cannot truly see all of the forces that guide us to a decsion, so to say we do not have free will is to say you can see all of the forces guideing you in makeing a decsion and is rather arrogant, though i do not mean any offense.

these forces dont cause thought and reasoning in my mind. so yes i di oahve free wil because my will is manifested through my reasoning, not forces.

The ideology of 'free-will' can't exist in the realm of chaotic systems, Why? Because we only perceive that we can change our actions and behavior. Such feelings of control are illusions; we are just ignorant of all the irresistible forces acting upon us. Our behaviour is mainly determined by previous events. The false ideology of 'free will' is a human constructed thought, hence the term 'ideology'; through reasoning. So I believe.

You may very well be right, wasn't it in the movie the matrix, that the oracle said we had to at least at a subconcious level have a choice?, well it may not really be a choice but as long as we are alowed to make it we think we are free.