christians? - Page 6

quote:

---

Of Lucifer and free will that is not a contradiction it was an error on my part I misinterpretted something. That doesn't mean the Bible is flawed just because the reader may be.

---

Think harder, its not about you, Lucifer exhibits emotions and rebellion/free will, angels are without souls, emotion, and free will.

That is a contradiction.

quote:

---

God could do that but only if it would in some way serve His will so maybe one day you will find a massive boulder on your lawn but then again maybe not.

---

You're being an idiot. But you are confirming that God can do something that he cannot do, which is a contradiction, even if you are slow to understand it.

quote:

---

Since when does a creator create himself? God only created that which wasn't already there, but He was always there.

---

And you know this because you were also there right? And because that makes perfect sense right?

Everything is everything, are you saying he is nothing or doesn't exist?

quote:

---

As far as other threads mentioning contradictions usually those are cause by taking verses out of context.

---

Who's context, and that is a rediculous assumption, you have earned the title of ass-hat, wear it with pride.

On the bright side, at least your icon is purrrrty.

quote:

---

angels are without souls, emotion, and free will.

---

This is not true the angels are capable of being joyful and expressing love, are not these emotions?

God can do all things but there are some things He doesn't do, for example He could do evil but He doesn't not because He can't but because He chooses not to.

quote:

---

And you know this because you were also there right? And because that makes perfect sense right?

---

It makes more sense that He was always there than it does to think that He made Himself.

quote:

---

Who's context, and that is a rediculous assumption

---

Read some of the so called contradictions that people come up with on those threads. They take peices from here and there and then put them together in a nonsensical way.

how can you comment how something feels if you aren't that thing or have ever spoken to that thing?(angel)
and stop speaking as if u know why god does what is done. " he chooses not to " uhmok

We are talking about Biblical contradictions, the Bible states that angels rejoice and express love to God therefore they have emotions so the fact that Satan became prideful is possible considering the existence of emotions in angels.

quote:

---

stop speaking as if u know why god does what is done. " he chooses not to "

---

God obviously chooses not to sin. It would be a pretty lousy faith to belief in a God no better than man.

quote:

---

It makes more sense that He was always there than it does to think that He made Himself.

---

Why because you say so? I don't think so, neither make much sense is my point, you just accept one blindly because that is the common consensus among those you follow.

In regards to the angels, were they or were they not given free will?

quote:

---

God can do all things but there are some things He doesn't do, for example He could do evil but He doesn't not because He can't but because He chooses not to.

---

God created evil, that is an evil act in itself, it is "the mother" of all evil acts, and then he allowed evil to continue to exist, and then he even punished the only "innocent" humans ever to exist and then all born "sinners" after.

God made man susceptible to evil and punishes them for it.

quote:

---

They take peices from here and there and then put them together in a nonsensical way.

---

Funny, that is exactly what I hear religious people do every day when they try to judge everything in the world from video games to abortion.

But when taking claims in scripture that conflict, and showing it, the nonsensical way isn't of the displayer. You realize that the old and new testaments are in conflict, as even addressed by Jesus, yes?

Thou shalt not kill and putting homos to death seems contradictory, but then because Jesus says that needn't be done, any more, fixes all that to you I take it.

quote:

---

God obviously chooses not to sin.

---

God is the father of sin, every existing sin is to his credit.

God sent an angel to slaughter children to punish man.

The reason God appears not to sin to the blindly faithful is because they excuse his acts that are sinful when man does them, namely killing.

quote:

---

It would be a pretty lousy faith to belief in a God no better than man.

---

Well then you have a problem, not only was man claimed to be created in Gods image, reality points to the theory that man creates an image of god in relfection of himself.

quote:

---

reality points to the theory that man creates an image of god in relfection of himself.

---

Yes man has created thousands of religions in order to honour himself. But Christianity is an exception.

quote:

---

The reason God appears not to sin to the blindly faithful is because they excuse his acts that are sinful when man does them, namely killing.

---

You misunderstand; God is not against killing He is against murder. Killing as a form of punishment is an acceptable act. The first person to commit murder was not put to death in fact he was protected from death because it wasn't until later that God addressed the punishment for murder. God doesn't arbitrarily punish people He set up a system of law with a system of punishments.

quote:

---

Thou shalt not kill and putting homos to death seems contradictory, but then because Jesus says that needn't be done, any more, fixes all that to you I take it.

---

As stated above killing as a form of punishment is acceptable.

quote:

---

But when taking claims in scripture that conflict, and showing it, the nonsensical way isn't of the displayer.

---

I was referring to the thread about the Bible being contradictory and one person had taken two isolated verses and then tried to make it look as though two different things were being said but if you read the verses surrounding those two (context) you find that both verses say the exact same thing.

quote:

---

God made man susceptible to evil and punishes them for it.

---

That is because God allows man to choose. If man had been more careful this sin wouldn't have happened it only happened because Adam and Eve were not observant enough to recognise a lie even though they spoke to God regularly they hadn't paid enough attention to His words so they were deceived by words that sounded similar.

quote:

---

God created evil

---

Evil at creation wasn't necessarily bad, just as the tree of the knowledge of good and evil wasn't actually bad. But it was an act of disobedience to take hold of evil and then it was forever associated with all wrong doing.

quote:

---

In regards to the angels, were they or were they not given free will?

---

I cannot answer that one yet but since they feel emotions then they can feel jealousy and pride and those are enough to cause an act of sin.

quote:

---

you just accept one blindly because that is the common consensus among those you follow.

---

The Bible states that God was always there.

quote:

---

Yes man has created thousands of religions in order to honour himself. But Christianity is an exception.

---

Oh, obviously. I see more people acting holier than thou touting there purity of faith and salvation over others coming from the Christian faith than any other I've encountered.

quote:

---

You misunderstand; God is not against killing He is against murder. Killing as a form of punishment is an acceptable act. The first person to commit murder was not put to death in fact he was protected from death because it wasn't until later that God addressed the punishment for murder. God doesn't arbitrarily punish people He set up a system of law with a system of punishments.

---

Killing egypts first born sons to punish a man is murder.

quote:

---

That is because God allows man to choose. If man had been more careful this sin wouldn't have happened it only happened because Adam and Eve were not observant enough to recognise a lie even though they spoke to God regularly they hadn't paid enough attention to His words so they were deceived by words that sounded similar.

---

This is idiotic to me, the first two people alive know nothing of lies and dishonesty, trust and faith, being careful, they are pure and innocent, the only innocents by some's standards.

If they could truly trust god, then God would have protected them and explained better, been a better teacher, not be punished for not knowing of trickery and lies that God is allowing as a game, nonsensicly explained by modern christians as the an evil created by an entity without the free will needed to do so, a sin for all mankind blamed on the only innocents.

Hogwash.

quote:

---

The Bible states that God was always there.

---

Oh, well case closed then.

quote:

---

I see more people acting holier than thou touting there purity of faith and salvation over others coming from the Christian faith than any other I've encountered.

---

How does this suggest man made religion?

quote:

---

Killing egypts first born sons to punish a man is murder.

---

This is typical human behaviour a country holds a nation in captivity and when they are released by force the dominating country is made to look like the victim. It was a just punishment with fair warning.

quote:

---

This is idiotic to me, the first two people alive know nothing of lies and dishonesty, trust and faith, being careful, they are pure and innocent, the only innocents by some's standards.

---

They knew the rule God clearly told them not to eat that one specific fruit.

'For the better'
Here is how I see the Bible copied from what I wrote I another thread:

I think before we can fully understand what Jesus did on the cross; we need to look at how mankind came to need a saviour in the first place.

When God created Adam and Eve, he created them in his image and gave us an ability to fully experience a loving relationship with him. But for love to be able to be fully experienced you have to be free to choose whom to love and also be free from any intervention that would cause you not to be free to choose.

God gave them a choice to obey him (a sign that they chose to love him) or disobey him (a sign they chose not to love him). He placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden. That was the only tree in the whole garden they could not eat from. This tree represented that choice. They, as we know, choose to call God a liar by eating the fruit from the tree after the snake (satan) convinced them that they were not going to die.
This has been ridiculed by many because God said they would 'surely die' if they ate the fruit. Well they ate it and didnt die.

But 5 things did happen when they ate the fruit.
1. They saw they were naked and ashamed of the way God had made them and covered themselves. The good self image they had of themselves died.
2. They were suddenly afraid of God and hid. There relationship with God died.
3. They blamed each other and they blamed God. A social alienation occurred (a death of unity between one another).
4. Their work in the fields was now going to be hard work. No longer was the ground going to yield an easy harvest. Child birth for the woman was going to be hard work. Work was not going to be enjoyable any more. A death to fulfilment at work.
5. Adam and Eve are now going to die.

Can you think of any more comprehensive death than this? It happens at every level.
We all know and experience these 5 things in our own lives.

Things get worse because God gives us his law. The law was not to make bad people good but to show sinful people how dead they really were. The law can control our external behaviour but it does nothing to our hearts where sin starts.

Man had to make atonement for his sin by sacrificing animals. This was only ever a temporary atonement for sin. It had to be done every year.

Jesus came as the supreme sacrifice, a once and for all atonement for sin. How was he able to do this?
1. Jesus was born from a virgin in whom the Holy Spirit had placed the seed. He was fully God and fully man. He felt pain and was tempted in the same ways as we are.
2. He was perfect. He led a sinless life. God says in the Bible that the price of sin is death. Because Jesus did not sin he was not going to die. He was the only person who could truly say I choose to die, thus he was the only person qualified to pay the price for all of mans sins past, present and future. We cannot say I choose not to die. It is an inevitability that we are going to die. We deserved death for our sins but Jesus took our sin and paid the ultimate price for them by dying on the cross.

Some say Jesus was just a good moral teacher but if that is all he was, he was horribly over engineered. He was perfect. None of us could ever hope to be perfect without Jesus. Jesus didnt come to make bad people good, He came to make dead people live again!

How do we respond to Jesus?
1. Recognize that we need help (confess that we are sinners in need of a saviour).
2. Believe in your heart that He is the son of God and that He has paid the full price for your sins.
3. Confess this with your mouth.

This is just a very brief explanation as to what Jesus did on the cross for us. If you need more elaboration just ask

'For the better' I think searching for the truth is so important. You need to examine the claims of all religions and find the one that leads you to the truth. We are made to known the truth and when you find it you will know it.

I think all truth claims need to answer at least 4 questions:
1. Where did I come from ?
2. Why am I here (what is my purpose) ?
3. Why am I the way I am ?
4. What happens to me when I die ?

I pray your search is a productive and fruitful one!

lol. think what am i first.

note: i think herefore i am was written htis way and not i am therefore i think!

petesmith: thanks for the response. searching for truth is ugh.... a necessity! i 'feel' the truth, i know what i believe in, i know what to do... BUT my actions still arent what they should be. and lately ive been wondering is faith enough for me?

all thechoices ive been given inmy life, even the small ones,sometimes i feel like i am not powerful enough to do what i know im supposed to. i need a good kick in the head.

quote:

---

sometimes i feel like i am not powerful enough to do what i know im supposed to

---

That's the whole point. One person alone will find challenges that cannot be overcome by a single person. Faith in God is doing those things even though you know you can't because know that God will help you through it.

sigh... felt this the other day. when i needed strength my body was incapable of creating by itself, i felt it. be it God, my mind playing games with me, BS, or w/e. it was a sense of belief in myself that ive never gotten from anyone else...

I get like that at work sometimes I don't sleep enough and by 4 or 5am I am just beat and can hardly stay on my feet when I focus on myself all I feel is tired but if I focus on God then I feel refreshed and can keep working.