'Absolute perfection'…

By perfection we intend... what do we intend? Oh.. yah, we intend... the absolute of a cause, like perfect beauty, like perfect love, like perfect intelligent, like perfect real, perfect mind, perfect... The perfection lies in everything, what I mean to say is that perfection is a concept that is colligated with everything, you name it... But does perfection really exist? Let me guess. No, of course it doesn't. Well yah it doesn't but we use perfection in every confront we want to make, or when we want to describe some one, when we like to demonstrate our love, when we like to think... But can we even think about it, I mean can we really imagine perfection? Can we describe perfection? For example try to describe the perfection in beauty.
Try to make your girl/boy friend look perfect... You can't, you can't even crate a perfect particle, or a door perfect, we can't even measure, or create a perfect, or calculate a distance. But what is perfection? Hmm... Absolute perfection I wrote. Well I think that is not true, we can't have absolute perfection, because the perfection is the extreme, or the heist level that an object, concept can reach. It's like saying infinity +1. It's an absurdity because a larger than infinity does not exist. So it's an huge error saying absolute perfection.

So if we say perfection, we intend for example: the perfection in LOVE, but perfection does not stay only in love, we can say (but we can't imagine) the perfection in HATE. But the perfection is 'perfection', I mean perfection contains in it's 'area' both of perfection ( perfection in love and perfection in hate). So analogically perfection contains all of all other perfections, which is absolute perfection? By absolute perfection I intend the perfection of all perfection, the perfection that contains not only the perfection of love and hate, but the perfection that contains the contraries of all perfection, which is 'absolute' perfection.

But if 'absolute' perfection is the concept that concludes and contains in its concept all of other perfection concepts can we imagine a thing like that?

Are we so blinded? But we said that perfection does not exist... Are we sure about this?

I was thinking, if we took both sides of a contradicted perfection, like love and hate, this two would be annulated,
we would have nullity, like for ex: -infinity; +infinity; = 0,
like time -(past) 0(present) +( future)
so we would have –(hate) 0(nullity, a state of peace, a state where the knowledge of fear and extreme peace does not exist) +(love).

But is this meaning? I thought. Then when I looked again I thought, if we compare and analyze this 3 examples we would get like, a perfection that lives in the existence of the present. I mean, we said that perfection does not exits, but this can't be true, there has to be something beyond our field of imagination, we could not imagine it, nor think of it, but it is out there. But can these examples be an answer? Like the perfection that lays within the cycle that makes all connect to all, like the universe, like the perfection that makes this reality work, like the perfection in the accident of our existence. This all perfection are reduce in philosophy at simple questions. Like why are we here? What is our role here? What is that bounds us to all of the matter? The perfection that lies in the question. The perfection is the every second we are living, the every second we are loving, the every second we are hating. The perfection in our present, in our past and in our future...

Perfection is when reality is when something is what our mind tells us it should be.

Woah Apeiron, you said the word perfection so many times I forgot what it meant in the second paragraph. Its' interesting of how you applied math to philosophy. I never thought it was possible....now that's a whole new discussion.

What's ironic is that some of us humans strive for perfection when we know we can't have it in this life, like immortality. I am a perfectionist in certain matters. Until now, I defined my life as the quest for perfection, but like DumbTeen says, what's perfect is "what our minds tell us it should be." Take perfection in social life. An introvert like me sees triumph in social life when I am able to form strong bonds but not be dependent on them. Other people may have a completely different concept of perfection. It's all depends on what you want.

Are you a perfectionist? Where did you come up with all of your theories and thoughts?

I was encouraged to be a perfectionist by my parents. They never stated it directly, but they encouraged it. I am a perfectionist when it comes to anything I commit myself to, such as schoolwork. (Ignore my age. I'm not 53 yrs old.) When I took the course that ruined my life, also known as Sociology 101, I began questioning my quest for perfection. What was perfection? I learned in Sociology that we are not independent beings. We are influenced, no, guided by everything around us. Society forms its own definitions or race, gender, wealth, and people accept it. Fads are a good example of this. What society thought was cool last year is out this year.

What is perfection? Depends on what society has in mind today and whether or not you accept it.

Perfection... I wrote perfection cause i am imperfect...
thnk you very much for your response, but in the last time i dident checked any quotes, i feel extreamly imperfect...
I think my perfection lies in love, i try to make my love perfect..
i want others to love me as i love them...
i think that could be a nice perfection.. dont u?

Aperion, I like your use of positive (+) and negative (-) to balance your contradicted perfection idea. It's synonymous with my belief that nothing can exist without an opposing substance/thing. I also view things using the positive and negative equation as it is needed in order for balance to exist.

'Like the perfection that lays within the cycle that makes all connect to all, like the universe, like the perfection that makes this reality work, like the perfection in the accident of our existence.'>>

Would you agree that, when looking at the grand scale of things, that things are made perfectly imperfect?

Perfection exists in our ideals. We know and realise our imperfections but only in know them do we try to evolve to a higher state, a state which would seem perfect in comparison to where we are.

'I think my perfection lies in love, i try to make my love perfect..
i want others to love me as i love them...
i think that could be a nice perfection.. dont u?'>>

Absolutely. But do you think, that even in attaining a state of perfection, that somehow we would try to tarnish it in order to test that perfection and then in turn, create a new, perhaps greater state of perfection?

Perfection does exsist, but we can't comprehend it. Think of perfection as a circle. Now let's say you are incapable of drawing a circle without any flaws, meaning what you would call a perfect circle, consistant in all areas. You can look at this flawed circle and say, "This is not perfect, this should be better." But you dont know how to make it perfect because you have never seen perfection. Human beings are really uncreative creatures. We can't create anything new, we just recombine things we know. If we havn't seen perfection we can't recreate it.

Dawn, do you think your belief that everthing has an opposite is applicable to everything? What's the opposite of time? Space? God?

And how can there be perfection in accidence? Every day, I am amazed at how complex this world is in terms of physical design, natural laws. I never could understand how all this could be an accident. Especially the existence of humans. How can the soul be a result of an accident? I mean, a mixture of carbon and oxygen atoms doesn't comprise a soul.

quote:

---

"things are made imperfectly perfect"

---

Can you expand on that more, Dawn? I think I understand what you're saying, but telll me what you really mean.

Secret, how do you know perfection exists if you have never seen it? What's your proof?

Also, if we're imperfect beings, how can we recreate perfection if we're imperfect?

What do you mean humans are uncreative! Even though I admit that's true, thanks anyway for stabbing my bloated ego! I'm going to pamper myself to make up for the loss of ego.

Well, wat dawn was reffering to was perfection on a grander scale, like how if the force of the big bang had been even little higher or lower, then this universe wud not have existed. But dawn, wat ur referring to iz perfection for us. Wud this universe be perfect, if we wud not be in it? Even on a grander scale, so far the universe can be described as 'perfect' on a grander scale only because of the existance of Earth. If there iz no earth , then no perfection.

Ok, actually, perfection does'nt exist in the material world. Perfection cannot be concieved or created by the mind, it can only be felt, one way iz through meditation, realizing that although your body, brain iz imperfect, 'you' are perfect, or to put it simpler, your 'soul' iz perfect.

wats the opposite of time and space? No time and space. In other words, the opposite of the universe: no universe.

Ok, now the opposite of God, attolia, thats a gud one!
Well, the opposite of time and space can be no time and space, but since God is everything and everything is God, so the opposite of God can't be no time and space...
Ahh, got it! Ok, jus get rid of the notion of God as a sperate 'being'. Just think that this whole universe is God. Or to make it simpler, think that matter is all that exists(or God is all that exists, it's the same thing), so the opposite of matter would be no matter, and the opposite of no matter would be matter. Thus the opposite of God would be God!
Man You can't beleive how happy I m right now Cuz unkowingly I have had an indirect insight.
Ok wheather nyone understand sthis or not, it's irrelevant, cuz like other meditative sayings like 'you and the universe are one',It needs to be 'felt'. Man, this is the first time I have had an insight into the universe with my brain! ( I know none of this makes sense, but hey, I am drunk with happiness!!)
Ok bye and love u all!

Attolia> yes, I do believe that there is an opposing force applicable to everything. Time is abstract and is a notion created by man, however, like Angel stated, the opposite of time would be no time. The opposite of space, would be substance/matter. To state the opposite of god, you would have to first have to state your definition of god, and as I don't believe in an omnipotent godhead, I can't give you an opposite for it. For me, God exists in everything, God is the one constant which exists within all opposing forces, thus since all the opposing forces balance out, so does God. Does that make any sense? *L*

Things are made perfectly imperfect. What I mean by this is that the apparent imbalances that exist, on a grander scale, are actually there for particular reasons, to create a particular chain of events that leads to whatever it was meant to lead to. This whole process creates a greater perfection. As for the soul being a result of an accident, that would depend on your definition of the soul. Do you believe that only human beings have a soul? Or do you believe that within everything, all things animate and inanimate, there exists that energy, a life force, which (I believe) is the soul?

quote:

---

"Also, if we're imperfect beings, how can we recreate perfection if we're imperfect?"

---

I think that in order for you to know, to experience and appreciate something to its fullest, you must also know and experience the opposite of that thing. For instance, like the cliché, you don't know what your missing until it's gone. Okay, that applies but it may not be the best example. Okay, what about this: those who have experienced pain and suffering can appreciate and respect love and happiness more than those who have not experienced pain and suffering. Therefore when it comes to perfection, since we are imperfect beings, once we understand and are aware of our imperfections, we can start moving towards implementing a better self, perhaps by eliminating or controlling the imperfections, and thus creating a more perfect being. I view this process as a form of mental and spiritual evolution. And the fact that not everyone seeks to evolve is also part of the balancing equation.

Angel>> I luv it when people get insights about things and they express their exhilaration in a way that it exudes from them

Gosh, I feel like someone with low intelligence when I can't understnd what people are saying. Maybe Dawn sees farther out that I do. Who knows. Or maybe I'm just tired. My self-esteem wants to believe that.

Angel, I love you statements of "feeling it." It's hard to believe in because I'm so dependant on my mind, but my heart guides me.

Dawn, I get what you're saying. What is my definition of soul? Hm...you know... I need to think about that. Souls desire. That's their prominent characteristic. So does a flower have a soul? Does it desire? Maybe desires must include the desire for immortality. Dunno. This is something I'll think about over this week of finals and applications and social service. My mind is about to commit suicide because I've been abusing it.

Oh this is so Platonic!

And I quote for insightful information, or a refreshment for those who have heard this before:

Plato's Forms (http://faculty.valencia.cc.fl.us/mtripp/HUM%202230/2230%20Class%20Notes/
existentialism%20chapter%2022.htm)

All that exists is an imperfect copy (or shadow) of the perfect Form.

Our essence is in that Form.

Forms are good.

We are basically good, society corrupts us.

If we have a perfect society, we can be closer to the perfect forms (heaven).

--

So the perfect version of your soul, exists, but you an imperfect reflection of this Form. There is a perfect Love, perfect Justice, perfect Morality. The question I pose to you is : How did these Forms come to be? If they are perfect, surely there is something associated with them that allows them to be determined as perfect - is this God? What is Nature and how does it define that these Forms, are indeed perfect?

I don't believe in perfection.
It is relative to the individual,
my idea of what the perfect Form is different from another - and Plato just thought it'd be far out to just say none of us know because the perfect Form isn't within our reach ..but who the hell deemed those perfect? And what if I don't agree?

What if I think imperfection is perfect, to me? Because of how it makes me feel, how it makes me live, how it makes me perceive and process thoughts. Then you think..it doesn't matter. If I think it's good and it works for me, why bother attempting to see if that is perfect because perfection again was deemed perfect by another being.

*shrugs*

or you could.. just get up, get up and get it.. get up, get somethin'!
Bone Thugs N Harmony nostalgia, eek.

I know perfection exists because I can see that things are flawed. I think we all have a perception of wrongness, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion to start with. Because I can see that things are wrong, I know that there must have been a time when they were right. We can't recreate perfection. That's what God is for.