'reality' - Page 6

I agree with you Calyxx. And by the way, welcome! Please enjoy your time! We accept all major credit cards for each posting.

You're right about the personal bubble. For example, the war in Iraq for me is something that I can not relate with. It is out of my bubble of experience. Thus, I can not comprehend how the Ameiricans or Iraqis feel about it.

By the war, WAR IS BAD! ALL YOU VIOLENCE LOVERS WHO LOVE WAR CAN JUST GO BANG YOUR HEADS AGAINST A WALL BECAUSE I LOVE FLOWERS AND HEARTS AND PEACE! Please don't hurt me.

Oops...I missed this...When I say thought and emotion are somewhat "real" I simply mean that the external world, I believe, is metaphysical, that we are "alone" in the universe with respect to the fact that we cannot know or experience the consciousness of others, and that the thought and emotion we colour the physical world with are, by virtue of our "bubble" of reality ( I agree with Calyxx here), are real for us...And Calyxx is right, the external world exists but we cannot know it in terms of three-dimensional space and linear time (which may be functions of the psyche and not physical properties of the external world), and even matter (which is a concept even more elusive than soul or spirit and proves to be a substance possessing no physical qualities whatsoever independent of the "wood" or "stone" it composes and, based on problems that arise when the idea of the "infinitely small" is contemplated, matter proves to extend "beyond" our concept of three-dimensional space). If matter in the universe is really metaphysical and the human mind is metaphysical in nature (independent of the physical brain) then thought and emotion become a "substance" capable of influencing the essentially metaphysical world outside us, making thought and emotion more "real" than we ordinarily think...whew!...Just my opinion, though...

I agree with you, Wizard. We can't really understand other because we haven't experieced the same thing or lived their lives. Even though I know that a papercut hurts, it may hurt more for someone else who has some personal experience to make it feel worse.

But I do not agree with anything else you said, Wizard, not because it's illogical, but because I don't get it. Dumb down your thoughts to simpler terms for me.

LOL!...If you really analyze the concept of matter, the so-called "stuff" everything's made of, you realize it's just a concept...There aint no such thing in a material sense because it has no color, no taste, no smell, or anything that would make it seem real to us,,,we only know "wood" or "stone"...The concept of "matter" taken apart from things we can see and touch seems incomprehensible, almost phantasmic...not much different than the concept of soul or spirit...and when you think about atoms and subatomic particles you start to wonder if particles of matter can forever be split up into more and more smaller particles...and if space of the small is somehow infinite...And, if not, has matter at such an infinite sub-level lost its physical material qualities?...You begin to wonder if matter at its deepest level has transcended three-dimensional space, if matter is somehow metaphysical at these infinitely small levels...if so, and if we believe that the human mind apart from the physical material brain is metaphysical as well, then the human mind should be able to influence the world outside...Thought and emotion may have a greater influence on the external world than we think...That was a little less condensed..It's not that I'm thinking at some higher level, it's just that I've gotten used to condensing my thoughts into concise messages to myself...Sorry.

Thanks for explaining your thoughts. I understand them better now.

Certain religions say that pride and arrogance is what made Satan a fallen angel or a reject from Heaven. He felt better than he was treated. Our emotions definitely have an impact on society. We develop values with our emotions. From the emotion love, we develop a value for relationships (and then we develop dating websites whose ads are everyhere ).

I love thinking, but when I get to a point when I can't go any further, I feel human. I can't comprehend fourth dimension or infinitely small subatomic particles. Thus, I don't always trust my thoughts because, like my body, my mind has its limits. And it also hurts to think about infintely small subatomic particles. My thoughts give me major migraines.

'the hallmark of a great thinker is that he is able to entertain a thought withought believing it'...
well, dun know where it came frm, read it sumwhere. Attolia, the thing iz that you don't have to 'comprehend' infinite matter etc, no one, not even a super einstein can do that, so dun worry if u can't comprehend it, cuz no one can!
Ok so in english, wat he meant was that where will the process of 'particles within particles' end. i.e atoms r made of molecules and on and on, the current smallest particle in existance iz a proton or sumtin, but then wats that made of??? this is the essence of what wizard said

Actually, it's not neccessarry that matter be infinite. A new theory has come up, called the super string theory, which says that all matter may be made up of two dimensional 'strings'. I can give the details if u want, but that could tend to lead to a different language!

Angel, save me the science talk. Science used to be comrehendable, until I started taking college classes. That's when I realized that chemistry or biology was not my language. Sure, I like to study them, but I don't like the classes.

That's a cool quote. But don't you think that the more gullible thinkers (like me ) may believe in some things that they hear? Sometime, I have no basis to judge a theory. My mind was blown away when I took Sociology, and that was because I heard such dynamic theories that I had no knowledge on. Thanks to sociology, I am even more cynical than ever.

Sorry...It's been awhile...I like those sub-three-dimensional theories of matter but, although most people understand what two-dimemsional space is, I think the "physical" reality of such a phenomenon is just as fantastic as meta-dimensional theories of matter...Everything in the world we percieve has depth...We can imagine objects without depth but the reality of such a thing seems impossible, although it can be "proven mathematically.'...I tend to believe, as Kant did, that three-dimensional space is a category of thought and perception and that infinity of the small and infinity of the large are merely "mental boundaries," two perspectives of one and the same infinity, which is the external world beyond three-dimensional space...We are trapped between these two infinities in what may be called the "material plane" which is not a physical quality of the external world but a condition of our minds...Just my opinion.

Hmmm... That reminds me of a question someone once posed to me: where is the edge of here? Well, my mind went all zen and I realised that "here" is infinite, and that if we lose that mental boundary then not only is "here" everywhere, but so are we. That is the reach of our consciousness is only as large as we allow it to be.

Think about, though...although our perceptions can provide us only with this inadequate three-dimensional conception of the world, we can still percieve the external world as it truly is with our minds (sometimes called the "third eye" with a little understanding and a little practice...Once we start to think about time in a different way we begin to see connections...Time as we all probably know is regarded as the "fourth dimension" of space, but this idea doesn't help much until you establish the fact that "linear time' (as we percieve it) is function of thought and perception as well...We can actually determine that we percieve time as a cross-section of reality, a point on what may be thought of as a line of time, and that the real world includes the past and future all at once...way too far out for the ordinary mind, but imagine if we could change our experience of time to include more elements of the past and future in what is percieved as an ordinary moment?...We would actually transform our perception of space!...It's seems very abstract but it's actually pretty simple...The world around us is driven by metaphysical concepts such as Love, Justice. Chaos, etc., etc., ....Things that transcend both space and time...These things are "real" objects or, rather, substances, and the manifestations we see in the physical world are only degraded consequences of these substances(a Platonic idea). The human mind is a "substance," too...seperate from the physical brain...and it can "touch" the real world as it truly is...Keep in mind, this is all theory, and I am most likely deranged, but I like to think the world is alot more mysterious than I ordinarily see...Oh, well...

Who really cares about shit like that i thought like that for 5 years. Just try and persuade people it may or may not work. But don't you see u can't free everyone of their conformity box. People like it that way. It's appealing to be a sheep. Don't think just bread, eat and make money. But there is no way you can start a revolution. Just trust me and just think your shit. But if you need people to change The only way to get people to change is to blaze with them and tell them. But you gotta back it up. Just do it one zig zag at a time. I know how you feel when your out of the conformity box you realise how fucked it is to be on the inside.

It can be lonely and frustrating watching those we care about act like sheep, but there is no way to change them. Once you cease to be a sheep you can never go back. The thing with reality is that it can never be shared. I am often amazed at how diffferent my recollections of an event are from the recollections of other people present. On the other hand reminescing is the act of constructing a shared piece of reality. As we talk about the past we make it what we want it to be, just as we create our present reality with our thoughts and actions. The only way to change the world is by changing ourselves.

"But there is no way you can start a revolution."

What kind of revolution are you referring to? What do people gain from stepping away from conformity, and if a revolution were to happen against conformity, wouldn't that just be reconforming to something different? Or would we properly prosper and grow in our unique fashions in a way unheard of to this point?

Conformity isn't just a choice, there is a social construct created out of necessity for survival, this is why I'm curious as to what kind of revolution you were referring to.

Once we have all basic resources automated and infinite in supply, then there will be more room for a thinkers revolution.

I think the other thing holding people back from a comfortable and happy life is our current management, economically, governmentaly, and globally. This is the revolution I'm looking for.

These people that have been inbreeding to run our countries is rediculous, only a combat veteran should be able to choose to go to war or not, not draft dodgers who get bumped ahead of thousands of others to join the air guard because of connections, and then even go awol during the war.

I want to reestablish and open government, so we can clean the crooks out and get this country back on track. Right now we don't need to be trying to spread "Democracy" or "Freedom", because we've already lost democracy, and freedom is on the way out.

Hmmm...How did this become a discussion of noncomformity and revolution?...I'm just talking about reality being something that can be shaped internally (as it is already to a great degree)...Nobody can think like me, or see the world as I do...All I was talking about was the idea that the physical world as we percieve and concieve it may be wrong and that the world as it truly may be understood once we understand what the external world isn't...and that's where all that three-dimensional space and linear time as a function of thought and perception stuff comes in...any kind of revolution is a waste of time, I think...The hell with anybody else...All you can work on is yourself, and maybe be a good thing for other people somehow...Mankind and all the business of society, governments, war, etc., etc., are just manifestations of mechanical influences that pull human beings here and there like puppets...In order to survive in this world we are forced to conform externally to these forces to a great degree...It's the way of the world...But we can atleast see the world for what is and in that knowledge we have great power to make conscious choices...But revolution?...Naaa!

"...Nobody can think like me, or see the world as I do..."

By your own line of logic you should no that you can't know that.

"The hell with anybody else...All you can work on is yourself, and maybe be a good thing for other people somehow..."

What are you talking about, what are you working on in yourself?

"...It's the way of the world...But we can atleast see the world for what is and in that knowledge we have great power to make conscious choices..."

Choices? To what end? You speak of being forced to conform cause its the way of the world but at least you can see it and make choices. But what is the point?

Saying that reality may be being wrongly percieved does nothing to dimish the understood fact, in the "understood" reality, that men women and children throughout the world are being tortured and killed, seemingly for reason and by peoples who are in need of being taken out of power.

I don't see it as a revolution that is a waste of time, I see it as a revolution that is being supressed, I'm saying a revolution is being caused by oppressive forces.

Once enough people get some good info on whats going on currently in the world, official quotes and documents and basic history, a revolution is inevitable.

I'm saying in this world that exists to the best of our knowledge, that people in power across the globe and specifically form within the US, government, and corporations, and international banks are once again causing global war, and enforcing economy systems that make the rich richer and poor poorer, give the powerful more power, and strip the individual of more.

And the only thing we have left besides a few trying to fight from within, is us, as individuals divided we will fall, but united (still as individuals) we stand and all that.

I would still not be worried about such things as this if it weren't for the fact that one, I can empathise too well with the emotions of people being tortured and killed, losing innocents, family and children being slaughtered, and two, because I have kids too now so I have them to worry about and I can empathize even more because of it.

We will probably never know really how many innocent civilians are killed by us, but I assure you, even just since the time of the first gulf war, its far more than you might guess, especially through those sanctions which mainly affected the sick, elderly, and young. We are a nation of baby killers, murderers, as long as we allow war crimes in our name, in the name of god even, its pretty sick.

But ya, its the way of the world, but from what we know, it may not have to be, because the way of the world is changable.

So maybe thats the inner change you and so many of us need, is to get our heads out of our asses.

I just heard someone phrase something like this, when you have poor people who are unemployed they become revolutionaries. And when you know you live in a society of blatant corruption, where the most common joke in society is the honesty of politicians and lawyers, c'mon, what do you expect.

We are being raped by the people making billions off of war and gaining unimaginable power. Somehow the same people associated with these companies are running our country, yet conflicts of interest, though lawsuits galore pop up, they still go on their merry way.

But that's just the way of the world right. A handful of people will become filthy rich and we will say they earned it while we fall deeper and deeper in debt and poverty, oh well, nothing can be done right. You are right, unless all of us fix that inner complex keeping us from helping ourselves and others.