'reality' - Page 5

"although I can't prevent myself from doing wrong"

I think there was more to the context of my point in my post and it was based off of a perception of sin as held by religious individuals especially, though not exclusively

However your quote here just confused me, is not doing a wrong a sin? I can guarantee you that most religious folks would say so.

I think it depends on the religion. What some religions see as human forgivable mistakes, others see as sin. And this whole thing goes back to the existence of God. What is sin? Is t something that God despises? Is it something tht has evil results? What's evil? Does evil exist? Do I exist? Are these words that I'm typing actually there, or are my eyes deceiving me? Yep, we overthinkers aren't too loved by the conformists. We question everything, including the question itself. Imagine trying to do that on a test.

What is the capital of North Dakota?
Your answer: Does North Dakota even exist, or is it some illusion we create in our minds to satisfy our desires for a state with the name North Dakota?

Or how about this:
Who is Tony Blair?
Your answer: I do not believe that Tony Blair exists. Stating the answer you see as correct is against my philosophy, which is that nothing really exists, but we think it does because we need illusions to live a life of pleasure.

Oh yeah, it's a guarunteed ticket to the shrink.

"I think it depends on the religion. What some religions see as human forgivable mistakes, others see as sin."

Now you are more getting into semantics, a forgivable mistake is exactly a way to define any sin I've heard of by many religions, repent and all is well.

The idea of what wrong carries what degree of wrongness or sin association is a very subjective variable as you were mentioning, but is another subject matter as well, because what I asked is of doing a wrong, regardless of whether its considered a mistake or intentional or whether is was a worse wrong than another or perhaps even disputed in its alleged wrongness as deemed by any religious and or governmental moral or law .

You were the one pointing out that you couldn't help yourself from doing wrong, going along with my statement that you were just making an argument against.

So I'm still confused. But I will just add to my point that because there are very significant and prominent perspective variance issues on what actually is right and wrong, since there are two sides to every story, that this in fact bolsters my point of inevitable human sin, you may be doing something quite legal and moral by one's standards and yet be guilty of the worst wrongs and sins to another.

Its that strong of a variation we are talking about, in our own country and belief systems even, let alone the rest of the world.

Leftwood, thanks for pointing out my irrational argument. I really respect that. Guess I need to oraganize my thoughts on this issue.

Is there a difference between what's wrong and sin? I think so. Not cleaning your room is wrong, but not a sin. Well, unless your mother says so.

"Not cleaning your room is wrong, but not a sin. Well, unless your mother says so."

Right, again perspective, but I'm not totally sure I know what you meant by this quote. If the mother says its a sin or if she said to clean the room.

The relevance comes in the religious doctrinated sin of disobediance to the parent.

That and it would have to be ordered for a wrong or sin to be commited, otherwise ya, not cleaning your room is neither wrong nor sinful, not till someone says it is.

And if you would like to further delve into the evil issue with some of us I encourage you look at this thread and any like it in here.

The Problem of Evil

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=32405-u-frmid=17

I was trying to say that what is a son or not depends on what religion or philosophy you accept. It's a sin for Catholic clergymen to have relations but not for clergymen in other religions.

I don't know if you can answer my some of my questions:
1. How can I get a picture to come up with my responses (just like you have that portrait)?
2. Does the attribute of ephemerality make something unreal?
3. Is everything ephemeral? Will everything have an end?
4. Is time created or was it always there? How is either choice possible?

Another thought. If time was created, then we can't say that God had a beginning or an end because He existed before time and will continue to exist after time if time, like all other ephemeral entities, comes to an end. Gosh, it's so hard to comprehend all this. No wonder some people choose to accept everything as it is. Questioning this stuff gives me major migraines.

Regarding your first extremely philosophical question, click on your name(on the left) a screen will open, and the click on browse icon, U need to have a piture stored in ur computer though. After you have selected your pitcure, click on the upload icon. After that it may take a few days before you can use it.(phew, I m tired from all this thinking)

Ok, now for your easier questions
Well, regarding the creation if time, it was never created, because it doesn't exist! Time doesn't exist for any other being, only for us, becasue we have a memory and can compare moments, and becasue of the existance of matter(should I explain this further?). Time can't exist withought matter. Time infact, is no big 'mystery'. It's like speed. 'Speed' itself doesn't exist, its not some seperate force or something. Withought Matter,there would be no speed.
So we can say that, yes, in a sense time(or the illusion of it) came into existance after the big bang, when matter emerged.

Ok, so what do u mean by these ephe thiniges! Do u mean omni potent beings?
Well, in that case I dont see how or why the attribute of ephemerality makes something unreal. It depends on ur perception of real. A omni potent or ephemerial being like God canot be concieved of by our present perception of reality. So in a sense, we can say that yes, God is unreal. God will not exist for us unitl we get a hint of what God is like, until we catch a glimpse into another reality.

Ok, well, scientifically everything, including this universe will come to an end, by a contraction of matter. Spiritually everything is eternal.
U know, we can say that the universe was never created, even though the big bang happened! First of all, what do u mean by 'universe'. If u mean matter, then yes indeed, the universe itself can't be created, only matter can. Empty 'space', which is all around us yet is incomprehensable, can't be created. it is eternal. If u wan't to imagine a world before the universe(i.e matter), then try to imagine a world withought matter, which u won't be able to.

Ok, so I think sin and doing wrong must be the same thing, since different societies have different perceptions of sin( for example, in the west, having sex before marriage is considered freedom, while in the east it is called sin).
So what we can do is controll the extent and number of our doing bad. We can't be perfect and not do bad at all, but we can still do as little wrong as possible.

"I think therefore I am" Rene Descartes...The question for me would be, is the world outside my thinking mind real or not?...If it is real, is it as I perceive it?...Or is it in the form of something I cannot percieve with my physical "material" senses?...Can my mind ever conceive of this true form of the world?...Complex questions, but I guess one would have to begin analyzing one's perceptions and the conceptions about these perceptions that are formulated to see if there are any inconsistencies or, rather, irrationalties....There are lots!

...and if it is, does it matter if you can't get out of your own mind and your own thinking?

I kinda' think that's all that matters...your own mind and thinking...the human mind "colors" the external world...ordinary objects take on different meanings for different people...a simple tre to one person might have great personal significance for someone else...that's where art comes in...a good artist can say express so much about the internal world through color, sound or whatever medium. I guess each of us is like an artist painting our canvas of the world.

Well, I mean we all still see the same thing. If we all see a tree, it will still be a tree, though someone may think it to be a beautiful while another as ugly.

Sure, but my world is my own...I know nothing of anyone else's perception of the world...and if what I percieve in a tree is different than your perception, then our trees are different...that's what one expresses in art, one's own reality colored by the psyche, thought and emotion...this is reality for the human mind...it's alot like the concept of money...a 100 dollar bill is just paper printed with ink...it constitutes a piece of wealth not physically inherent in the object itself, but is still valued highly becuase of the concept we attribute to it...Pedople will kill for this piece of paper...thought and emotion are alot more "real" than we would like to admit...

quote:

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thought and emotion are alot more "real" than we would like to admit...

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What did you mean by this?

Also, Wizard, what I understand from what you're saying is: if we can not comprehend it, it doesn't exist. I don't remember whether I mentioned this in this thread or elsewhere, but our comprehension, our minds, like our bodies, have limits, so it is possible for things to exist in a manner we can't understand. Can you comprehend the size of the universe (planets, stars)? If, like most humans, you can't, that doesn't mean it's not physically there.

And what's your definition of "universe"? To me, it's the planets and stars and Martians.

Hi, I'm new so sorry if i'm butting in here but this is a very interesting conversation (er, exchange?).

My thinking has led me to believe that we all have a kind of personal "bubble" of reality. What is outside that bubble may still exist but if we are not aware of it or cannot comprehend it then it effectively does not exist within our personal reality.