Was Christ really resurrected? - Page 3

Spirituality believes in 'oness with everything' or oness withy God. In spirituality, the individual 'I' is just an ilusion, in essence everything is the same. So when you get rid of a seperate 'I', then u atain enlightnment, i.e, onness with God, u 'become' God, in the sense ' u ' dont exist, u become His reflextion. Every religion has this at it's heart. Christianity, Islam, Hinduisim, Buddhisim, the utimate aim is to lose yourself in God...

The buddha is an example of onness with God. Infact, he became a 'reflextion' of God, however, 'gautama', the guys original name, himself didn't become God, 'gautama' as an individual ceased to exist the minute he became enlighned and becoem one with God.
Even in islam, which believs in only one God, some have said openly: i am the truth(i am God). The pharo of egypt's saying 'I am God' is blasphemous, jesu's or buddha's saying 'I am God' is music to the ears. The first claim challanges God, the second means losing yourself in God's love.

Same must be the case with jesus(pease be upon him). The man named 'jesus christ', himself wasn't God, that 'individual I' seperate from God ceased to exist once jesus became one with God. The man named gautama didn't atain enlighnment, as when u become one with god the 'I' no longer exists, thats why he's only refferef to as 'buddha'.

Dreamer quoted a lot of scriptures from the epistles, and I don't know if I have faith in the epistles. I tread lightly, because there are some very enlightened individuals who very much believe in these scriptures, and have been able to interpret them in such a way as for them to make since. But still, take them at face value, they don't seem very creditable. The dark ages were long, and who knows what could have happened during that time.

In my study of religion I have come up with the same conclusion, that salvation is the sacrifice of "I" and loosing yourself to the will of "it". Sex which is a physical portrayal of love is just this, releasing "I" and giving yourself over to "it". Unfortunately, an awfull thing happens, "I" takes itself forcefully in the way of lust. A ceromony of life we play out all the days of our lives until we get it right. We will not be able to get it right while in the physical plane, accept for small moments in time when we may trancend.

My interpretation of things: If all of us came together as one, we would be Jesus. The virgins awaiting the bridegroom as described by Jesus. The marriage was his death on the cross. We too, in some distant future will come together as one like Jesus, and will have to suffer the same baptism on the cross as he did (the marriage) to become one with God. This is our salvation, and it is far in the future and we grow nearer to.

Let me make this clear. This is my interpretation of things, and as I learn more, that interpretation may develop into something different if it is far from the truth.

Well, it wont make sense unless we have a credible and viable trail of answers....aka history.

History shows that the Apostles were writing all their 'laws' for Christians to bind to the beginning church by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as Jesus breathed the Spirit on them.
He said He would be with them always.

{WE know this by Saul's conversion too..who spoke to Saul? Who converted Saul...He said the Lord did.}

The Apostles could not err. Not only becuase the Spirit was leading them, but also because Jesus said to Peter...
"Whatever you hold loosed on earth shall be held loosed in heaven, and whatever you hold bound one earth shall be held bound in heaven."

Giving Peter the right to make known what is a sin and was is not.

Did Peter lie, you wonder, did the Apostles make indescretions for the Holy Word?

I assure you of a few things, one in being their lives as the sacrifice for the Lord...to give evidence that man does not lay down their life for a lie...
AND two, if what the Apostles wrote were a lie, then Christ was a liar.
For Christ was NOT a liar, and He breathed the Spirit unto them to ensure they did write according to God's laws.
The Spirit ensured the writings...and IF they were a lie, they would not have been left intact for 2000 plus years.

God is mighty, and He would have not allowed the church He died for to be given over to ficticious writings.

Christ was the sacrifice, and His life the fulfilled prophesy.
The act of dying....and being mocked to save Himself but not even raising a hand or speaking out the truth for defense...He laid His life down voluntarily.
HE told Pilate the only authority he had over Him, was that which He gave Him.

Meaning Christ could have just scrapped the whole deal..He did not.
THE ppl jeered because they saw His miracles, and thot they had power over such a powerful man.

How many can say they love someone enough...let alone a world of hateful sinners, by giving up their life to save everyone??

With Christ being the one to raise up on the Ascension...He left no evidence of His remains in flesh on earth...therefore His followers did.

IT was a sacrifice to the Church to give witness by their flesh left for men to ponder the righteousness of Christ and His words for His church.

WE are called to love one another as Christ loved His church..therefore that is an awesome LOVE!

Not one to be dismissed or taken for granted...as we do now.

Also...notice how the beginnings of the church included many followers...why?

Because they could not find Christ...His body disappeared.
They knew He lived, they saw Him..and they converted.



Here is something I find of interest..and taken for granted.

When Christ died the 'Temple Curtain' was torn.
What was the significance?

The only one allowed to enter the room in the temple hidden behind the curtain was the appointed High Priest. They went in one time a year...and lit candles and gave incense to God. A tradition held by the Jews.
IT was written, that no man aside for the time and the appointed man could enter this room, or they would die.

When Christ died..HE tore the curtain..and released the sins that were given sacrifice for in that room. HE was THE HIGH PRIEST from God.

That is why the believers even then said.."For surely this is the son of man."

He took away sins, therefore releasing the ppl of the 'curtained room.'
IT was torn..therefore sins were released.

You give us scripture lesson and call it a history lesson?

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Spirituality believes in 'oneness with everything' or 'oneness with God.'
1) In spirituality, the individual 'I' is just an ilusion,
in essence everything is the same.
2) So when you get rid of a seperate 'I', then u attain enlightnment, i.e, oneness with God,
3) u 'become' God, in that sense ' u ' dont exist,
u become His reflextion.
4) Every religion has this at it's heart.
Christianity, Islam, Hinduisim, Buddhisim,
the utimate aim is to lose yourself in God...

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1) The oneness of the spirit does not seem relate to Christian conceptualism. Although most (societies) religions differ in distinctions, consider that most people (the general species) refer to spirits with separate and distinct appearance or having semblance to humanoids or animals as well as a separate entity within our existence.
2) 'Enlightenment' & 'revelation' are not exactly the same process, although they share certain traits.

The Spirit ond oneness...Jesus said...

"Father let them be one as we are one."

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You give us scripture lesson and call it a history lesson?

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"You believed because you saw, Blessed is he who has not seen but believes."

Well, if you need proof, look into the search engines for archeological digs.

Besides just reading Catholic history...and 'writings' kept intact during, and after the time of Christ.
It is one continious line of history written by the followers after the Apostles.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a023.html
This is about the dead sea scrolls, which back up that the Old Testament is accurate to the accounts we have today.....
THE writings of Matthew show how this was all fulfilled...
The Jewish writings came to life in Jesus...

Scripture is history.....look at the dead sea scrolls.

"It is one continious line of history written by the followers after the Apostles.

Scripture is history.....look at the dead sea scrolls."

Man's written word and accuracy have never been on the best of terms, especially when promoting ideologies and agendas.

Embelishment and distortion (intentional and otherwise) are the cliche's of all such past down stories. Even playing telephone in a single line for five minutes, young or old, unravels any hope of maintaining accuracy.

(Think hard, how unbias is a "believer", a "follower", a devout and loyal servant whose sworn duty is to convert all others?)

"You believed because you saw, Blessed is he who has not seen but believes."

This statement is misleading. Believes in what? The truth of the existance of God and miracles and therefore the legitimacy of all words and messages claimed to be from God?

If no one had heard of or "seen" the Bible, Jesus, or a mentioned God, then what would you expect them to believe without having seen?

You talk of man's deciet and ignorance to such simple basic and evident truths, truths you believe even though they are but claims from the mouths of these same men as they were when presented to you and everyone else who has not taken part in the events of the Bible themselves.

Even history books aren't accurate, science books, you say so all the time yet......

"Scripture is history.....look at the dead sea scrolls."

and suddenly thats supposed to mean something, supposed to add support to its factuality?

For all of eternity, would it be safe to say that there are at least 2 active accountings, perceptions, and beliefs on every event historical or otherwise known to man? But of course probably infinitely more.

And even though no two people can seemingly have a conversation and give the same accounting of history without reading word for word from the same book, there are those who are convinced that they know for a fact that the Bible is accurate, interesting.

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Whats even funnier is when religious people talk of others being brain washed because they don't believe the same thing. Being brainwashed is simply being told something is true, forcibly or through fear in the face of resistance, untill you BELIEVE it. Its most notable and effective with children.

Which is exactly what religion does, tells kids they are going to hell if they don't believe (and of course it has and still does go much further).

This affects people's perceptions, beliefs, loyalties and bias from cradle to grave, in a way that all else is condemned for doing.

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Jesus spoke of humility, and yet its the Christian belief that mankind is above all other forms of life and nature other than god, that the universe it but a playground for man and his maker, a philosophy reeking of humility .

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Embelishment and distortion (intentional and otherwise) are the cliche's of all such past down stories. Even playing telephone in a single line for five minutes, young or old, unravels any hope of maintaining accuracy.

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ALL of the dead sea scrolls were identical to the original writings still held the same today...
PLUS...if you look at the finds in science...called archeology you would discover that the SAME EXACT WRITINGS are found on walls in cities...ANCIENT CITIES. With Tombs of Kings also mentioned in the Bible.

IN FACT historians MUST use the Bible for relevancy of these ancient studies.
In fact, should you actually open your mind to these facts you would see that NOTHING was made up...or if it was, it would have been grossly distorted by now.

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Whats even funnier is when religious people talk of others being brain washed because they don't believe the same thing. Being brainwashed is simply being told something is true, forcibly or through fear in the face of resistance, untill you BELIEVE it. Its most notable and effective with children.

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NON BELIEVERS ARENT BRAIN WASHED, THEY REFUSE TO KNOW...BIG DIFFERENCE.

No identical information matters if it was contrived to begin with. And it wasn't written when it happened meaning word of mouth came first, then written stories recalling events, nor was it written, once again, by neutral or unbiased people. For some reason, you can understand the significance of this in todays news, but not the biggest news story ever?

Refuses to know? There is no knowing in faith, thats the point right, don't confuse knowledge with faith and belief, big difference.

You may very well be the one refusing to know a fable when you see one.

Scaring kids self righteously by telling them their loving god is going to destroy the earth soon, in very descriptive and unpleasant ways, sending the unconverted to eternal hell, ah the pride you must feel.

Kids are brainwashed by religion, not by the religion itself, but by friends and family within, you blew off a very important point, when information like this is PUSHED, THREATENED, or just basically believed by adults this very much affects a child and what a child believes regardless of factuality, santa, easter bunny, etc.

A human creature, young or old, can be taught and trained to believe anything, this is why you try so hard to get the word out, because there are other words to compete with.

Your assumption that it is real because there is written accountings that you call evidence, and because so many people sheepishly follow and claim belief does nothing to validate it.

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Besides just reading Catholic history...and 'writings' kept intact during

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There was no Catholic church while Jesus lived.

http://www.christiancourier.com/archives/nebuchadnezzar.htm

http://www.salvationhistory.com/library/scripture/historical/grecoroman/
geography.cfm <~Maps

http://www.katolik.nu/now/html/arch.htm <~christian archeology

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ <~Church history of the earliest Fathers.

etc etc....and History is being prooven IN THE BIBLE AS FACTUAL THRU archeology.

LOTS of sites showing this..including pictures...and how the kings in the bible are also prooven..etc.

IF the Bible lied, then it would not show history in exacting detail that archeology is finding.

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There was no Catholic church while Jesus lived.

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This argument means that He did not die so His church could be built??

His followers called APostles started the first church.....
IT became known as Catholic AFTER Luther spilt from it...hence it had to seperate itself....by a name.
Catholic meaning UNIVERSAL!

"IF the Bible lied, then it would not show history in exacting detail that archeology is finding."

I'm afraid thats not true, I could write a book claiming I'm Superman and make accurate accoutings of who is president and what is in the news today, what the weather is, if an earth quake or Tsunami happened recently, doesn't mean my claims are true.

Thats where a confusion about what is in question about the Bible's writings, the basic history is not, outlandish claims of miracles, direct commands from and conversations with God, resurrections, these are the claims of relevant questioning and skepticism.

These are the claims that if any person were to claim today without proof (and probably even with) would be laughed at or institutionalized, unless the 700 club is reporting of course.

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I'm afraid thats not true, I could write a book claiming I'm Superman and make accurate accoutings of who is president and what is in the news today, what the weather is, if an earth quake or Tsunami happened recently, doesn't mean my claims are true.

Thats where a confusion about what is in question about the Bible's writings, the basic history is not, outlandish claims of miracles, direct commands from and conversations with God, resurrections, these are the claims of relevant questioning and skepticism.

These are the claims that if any person were to claim today without proof (and probably even with) would be laughed at or institutionalized, unless the 700 club is reporting of course.

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YOU could but no one would believe you unless they saw you fly like superman...and IF they saw you fly like superman and lift airplanes, and they gave a witness to your life as being accurate and true..and then DIED AS A WITNESS...and you actually were superman...then this is highly credible...but let's not stop with one witness...let's bring in 11 more...all who saw you fly, and stop catastrophies.....etc
And these men all went to different parts of the country telling everyone the same account in a very detailed way {Some remembering details different than, but within the same accuracy and precision]...and stood willingly b4 angry mobs and said...."I will die a believing man....!!!"

Otherwise ya dont have a chance of a snowball in hell in maintaining the story thru time...let alone 2000 plus years.

O.....AND even less a chance an entire nation of ppl would 'take the time' to write the 'writings' over and over carefully and without mistake...to ensure the survival of your story.

IN fact...UNLESS there were an incredible amount of witnesses...it would fall on the dungheap of fiction...and the story would die where it was pen and inked.....after say..maybe 300 years.

O...and anyway, NO one would have your story written on walls in a city....unless THEY SAW YOU .....fly.

People are fickle.... they wont follow fiction the same way. They also wont have your writings in exact detail.... ppl are usually {Note the word usually} funny that way...

Ever tell someone a stroy only to have it repeated ENTIRELY different after say 7 ppl had recanted it.
{YET 6000 plus years later...same story in the same details}

Archeology shows us, this did happen.
IT must have been important enough to make sure in painstaking detail that every 'vowel' was properly written.

Indeed.....mere men would easily ruin a good fiction...but something they KNEW AND FEARED MESSING UP if left inaccurate....?? NOT A CHANCE!!!

Probable chances are one in a bajiillion. Too much of a fluke.

Again...human tendency for a tale vs human 'fear' at NOT keeping it accurate...is proof in the pudding.

You would think, but look what happened.

Everything you just said, was speculation, assumption, and flat out wrong.

Everyday people fight for different sides of equally witnessed and accounted events of both minor and major proportions. Including that which we are discussing.

In one post you tend to repeatedly contradict yourself on the same points such as man's innacuracy, bias, and lies, and then of exact detail corroborations that somehow still have minor differences etc.