A Just Religion - Page 2

In my foolish days I believed in one nation under god. But i'm smarter now and know this won't work. A nation cannot follow god, as a whole nation cannot agree on god.

However - religion must be under god and not man. This is where religion traditionaly goes astray - they follow a person and usually incorrectly.

Dogma = A belief that one holds the truth. Anyone who is truly wise knows this is Bull. One becomes a leader by memorizing this dogma forward, backward and sideways with full and complete confidence so that you can challange all. Thus a leader is born who will maintain their leadership by supressing any opposition. Growth stops, and the tree of knowledge dies, its leaves blow away and is never known again (extreme) dark ages. If we would follow God instead of this leader, we would grow. It does not matter that we do not know God, because we will.

In my lifetime I've experienced things, and seen things. All these things could be explained away or dispoven I'm sure, so for the most part, I keep these things to myself. We each have to discover on our own. I've seen an Aithiest pray and read the bible.

To me an Aithiest is just someone looking for proof and finding only dissapointment, because there is none, somone who is just not able to just believe until you look death into the eye, and then you wonder just maybe.

Yeah, I guess when I'm on my death bed I'll be hoping to go to a 'better place'. An eternal DisneyWorld would be cool.

Actually, I've never "looked" for proof. I'm the observing type. When I volunteer at the soup kithchen (atheists care too ya know) and people say "God bless you", I see this as a goodwill gesture from man to man. I don't actually believe that God will bless me. Thats how I've always viewed religion. How man should treat his fellow man. I've always known this, even without religion.

some may see that as a spiritual awakening

[some may see that as a spiritual awakening]

Which part, Disneyworld or the soup kitchen?
In either case, I don't see it that way. I see it as common sense. Man should care about their fellow man. Also in the face of death, it's only natural for man to believe in a form of continuation, i.e. after-life.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-religion. This is the way I feel, but I respect those who feel otherwise.

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Which part, Disneyworld or the soup kitchen?

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I would guess I mean the soup kitchen?
Actually helping others is good for you & them.

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In either case, I don't see it that way. I see it as common sense. Man should care about their fellow man.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-religion.
This is the way I feel, that the spiritual values which you live by determines what type of person you truely are being or beast is determined by these spiritual values.
This is the Way which Jesus taught, not the justification of religious theology. Likewise I have noted your comments about capitalism, for me there is a distinction between democracy & capitalism. The rule of the well educated should be toward protecting & providing for the people, not promoting personal gain. this is an issue of contention which extends itself through out the biblical (OT & NT) times.
This arises from a form of greed & is taught against from the times of the first man ,Adam yet the love of it is so strong that even those called christian fall prey to it.

Religion was THE 'civilizing' factor and precursor to government. It is present in its myriad forms in all cultures. We are nothing if not consistant. Each religion was formed based on the needs of the people to be controlled and their mode of living/subsisting. All our governments sprang from those seeds. Unfortunately we can't be isolated from the influence of religion OR government. We are all affected/infected. Whatever our orientation, we all have heard of the need for 'humanitarian' actions. It is like insurance. Do a good deed today so when you die you will have hedged your bet, one way or the other. As far as a religious state, take a look at the nations that are religious states: Iran and Israel are good examples. Hateful places. Is any nation more isolated and hateful than that of God's 'chosen' people? Or, given God's nature in the old testament, is that how we are supposed to act?
Perhaps if we could just celebrate our differences rather than try to convert ourselves into cookie cutter images. I really don't care if someone is better than I am. I'm happy with who I am, why can't you be happy with who you are? Or is that doing it again, trying to remake someone in MY image. Twisted. Why can't I be happy that your drive is to convert while mine is to stay unique? One religion? Never!

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Religion was THE 'civilizing' factor and precursor to government.

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I guess I wil have to ascede to the civilizing aspect of your statement. While it has been an ascerted that this is within the purpose & intent of religion,
I do not find it a valid perception in Christianity which would make it a false value in Jeudism as well.

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Whatever our orientation, we all have heard of the need for 'humanitarian' actions. It is like insurance. Do a good deed today so when you die you will have hedged your bet, one way or the other.

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A common misconception, Ideal is that we should seek to help one another, sharing the fruits of our labors ( OT law exemplifide in NT) When Jesus & the disciples walking through a field picked grain & ate it. this is part of of the law given to teach Hebrews how to live, that as the birds of the field ate of the grain so should humans allowed to eat but not to collect but to take substances.
Just as when harvesting you were not to take all
but leaving culls were for those who had not.

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One religion? Never!

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There is only one who is GOD but that we should all worship God in the same way, Heaven forbid!

Religion is like a language or dress. We gravitate toward the practices in which we were raised. But in the end, we are all saying the same thing. That life has meaning. We are grateful to the power that created us.
In other words, whether your Christian or Muslim simply depends on where you are born. Just look at the diffusion around the world. Don't get me wrong though. Faith isn't random, but it's universal. Only it's the specific methods of worship that differ. Some people pray to Jesus; others go to Mecca.
God however, is a different story. Science tells me God must exist, my mind tells me I will never understand God, and my heart tells me that I am not meant to.

cturtle: Judaism, with its rules coming directly from the mouth of God, is the ultimate 'civilizing' religion when followed to the letter. The problem is that it is not practiced as God spoke/wrote (10 Commandments) it. Christianity just becomes more convoluted by adding another 'theorist' to the mix. If you believe in our 'Christian' God, then you have to concede that civilization was created for/by the Hebrews as God's chosen people. What we do/have done with His word is something else all together.

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If you believe in our 'Christian' God, then you have to concede that civilization was created for/by the Hebrews as God's chosen people

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Like Patri, who concept of the church is a religious doctrine but the church is a spiritual entity composed of those who seek to do GOD's Will.
I beleive that God's Promise was made to those people not the Hebrew people as another pointed out God's promise is just as valid to both of Abram's children? But then GOD did these things according to His Will, not theirs so we may benefit.

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What we do/have done with His word is something else all together.

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Obsolutely, those calling themselves Christians have promoted their ways before God's Way which is on their head! As it is written ' to fall into the hands of a wrathful GOD! Woe be thy name?

Did anyone even read what I wrote? Does it not speak the truth and include a respectful and sensical view of all religions? Why must it matter whether you are Christian or Jew

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Did anyone even read what I wrote? Does it not speak the truth and include a respectful and sensical view of all religions?

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Yes we did & I for one was glad that you had put it forth. Your are right you don't have to be Jew, Christian nor even Muslim, to seek the ways of God. IN fact you don't have to beleive in GOD if the bend in your nature is such as to live that is pleasing to Him. Unfortunitely most people don't, but all down through history some individuals have sought such a life. The hard part is in the knowing & doing!
This is where religion usually comes in but in truth the simple life of the most common people is conducive to that life. In primative cultures the need for harmonic relationship is basic to survival of the people. One of the reasons Jesus taught the common (lowest estate) people, who were amazed for they were taught by society that they had little value in their society.

If pepper is bad and salt is good, all food is seasoned with it.

Within all religion you have thoughs who are and seek great goodness and you have those who use their religion to do wrong. We all enjoy the salt and pepper, without it, the food is rather bland. The flavor gives us reason and makes us feel satisfied and aids in growth.

Good and Bad
this one is wise (or is he)

For with the good time you thank God
and in the bad times you remember God

and those who persecute, you forgive them
for you must love even when it hurts

"But I say unto you, love your enemies,bless them that curse you,do good to them that hate you,and pray for them that despitefully use you,and persecute you."[mathew5:44]
yes !

Remember God is mercyful
"So then it is not of him that willeth,nor of him that runneth,but of God that sheweth mercy"[romans 9:16]

Yes as u say, it is GOD who shows His Mercy for in deed do we show our unworthyness of His Grace.
He created the world & we think it belongs to us, we are give authority & abuse it to steal from GOd's Hand.
He gives us His Mercy & we make it into a Lie to promote our own way.
We murder our brother & say God told me too.
We make GOD into a Lie & the source of evil in the world which He Created >
the Wrath of GOD is truely just upon our heads!
Right?