What's Wrong With Islams Leaders? - Page 5

Ah - so you are Muslim - Great - glad to have you here. About time one of you get here. I hope we never argue.

I am not Christian (I don't know what I am, and I'm not going to become anything). But I do very much believe in God/Allah. I have ideas and I share them. I will not tell you that I know the truth about things and if you don't believe me you are wrong, and as long as you never try to tell me the same. We should never argue. I welcome your comments.

Your recent revelation is confusing to me. I used to think the same thing many years ago and then recently I leaned something different and now you're telling me something wholly different again. I swear I read something different. I'm going to have to go back and look at those books. But the historians may not have it right. There are some things that history doesn't tell correctly. Equally so however, some people don't know their own religion or church, but have somewhere along the line missinterpreted something.

In the Navy they drilled it my head to never assume anything. Often we do without fact, must be human nature for our ego to decieve us into believing that we know things we kinow nothing about.

I created this thread out of anger. 9/11, Muslim clerics were asked if they condemned this act, and they did not. Now I know the media doesn't always portray things correctly, and one muslim cleric may completely dissagree with another.

The Muslim world for the most part is confused about America (I don't know if you're American or not). America IS NOT CHRISTIAN. We believe in seperation of church and state which the Muslim world does not understand. So if our religious clerics condemned acts of violence, it wouldn't have the same reaction as it would if a moslim religious leader condemned violence done by muslems.

Peace be with you - hope I'm not scaring you away.

I'm in canada, and know of the politics in the US. i'll be glad to answer any question you have about islam. after reading some of the posts, i noticed you guys were way off concering islam in some case ... so i thought i'd chime in ..
so i'm the only muslim here? should be interesting /

Just to give a little update: I've been reading several articles, especially in the New Yorker, about this cleric Al Sadr. Apparently, he is not followed by the majority of mainstream Muslims, and many important Muslim figures have ordered him to cease his rebellion.

Not only this, but there have been several "drive-by" style attacks on Al Sadr's militia with civilian cars, so presumably by rival Iraqis.

"Judaism was a valid religion till christianity. similarly christianity was valid till islam. we consider the follower of the religions (the time when they were valid) to be muslims." Late breaking news nomaan, these are still valid religions.

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We, the undersigned Muslims, wish to state clearly that those who commit acts of terror, murder and cruelty in the name of Islam are not only destroying innocent lives, but are also betraying the values of the faith they claim to represent. No injustice done to Muslims can ever justify the massacre of innocent people, and no act of terror will ever serve the cause of Islam.

We repudiate and dissociate ourselves from any Muslim group or individual who commits such brutal and un-Islamic acts. We refuse to allow our faith to be held hostage by the criminal actions of a tiny minority acting outside the teachings of both the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

As it states in the Quran: 'Oh you who believe, stand up firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even if it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be against rich or poor; for God can best protect both. Do not follow any passion, lest you not be just. And if you distort or decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that you do.' (Quran 4:135)

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In my studies to answer nomaan I found this. This is a breath of fresh air. But its not from a high ranking cleric. But hey, I'll take it. And I too think that Rumsfield should step down, more than that, lets Impeach Mr. Bush. I think more than one law has been broken here.

Around 250 AH, not AD. I'm not clear as to what AH stands for. As far as Mohammed claiming to be Jesus returned. Maby he was accused of that by a Christian historian who wrote the book I was reading from a book I checked out from a library about 14 years ago. I don't think I can find that reference.

There were two Mohammeds. The first who died in 632 and the second died in 768. The first Mohammed was called an Apostle by the angel gabrial who wanted to throw himself off a mountain being afraid of poets and those possesed by demands who were jelouse of him. Try to paint a picture of that. The second Mohammed is credited for putting all of the first Mohammeds writings together (I think)

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The earliest biography of the Prophet is the great collection of hadiths compliled by Muhammad ibn Ishaq of Medina (died c. a.h. 151/a.d. 768).

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From the Islam series of the Great Religions of Modern Man. A book my wife has shared with me. Bless her heart.

Sorry if I have missrepresented you religion. Seeing that you are brave enough to jump in here. I welcome you to create a thread and teach us Islam. It wouldn't hurt us none.

Went back and reread my statements, boy am I getting jaded! I apologize for gettting so far off subject.

IUHoosier - I think what nomaan was saying is that as Muslims see it, the faith of Islam is the completion of this "trilogy" of faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

I guess this works well if I explain this in movie/book terms: Christianity was the sequel to Judaism, updating it and making Judaism invalid. Islam did this to Christianity. So, in a way, they are all the same faith, they have just evolved over time.

The problem is, not everyone sees things the same way or believes what everyone else believes, so, of course, there were people who refused to follow the new updates, and so a separation is formed. Today, these are all seen as profoundly different religions that simply create conflict.

An interesting perspective!

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IUHoosier - I think what nomaan was saying is that as Muslims see it, the faith of Islam is the completion of this "trilogy" of faiths (Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

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"As far as Islam is concerned, it categorically rejects and condemns every form of terrorism. It does not provide any cover or justification for any act of violence, be it committed by an individual, a group or a government..... I most strongly condemn all acts and forms of terrorism because it is my deeply rooted belief that not only Islam but also no true religion, whatever its name, can sanction violence and bloodshed of innocent men, women and children in the name of God."
http://alislam.org/terrorism.html

Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad (1928-2003) Khalifatul Masih IV (1982-2003) Fourth Successor to the Promised Messiah.

He was a religious leader, and it sounds like he was man of peace. I couldn't find it, but surely he condemned what happened on 9/11.

I too condemn violence and do not believe that it is the will of God, but by the greed of man for possession and power.

Pier pressure has been proven to be a powerful tool that we yet to utilize. People can't think it's ok, we have to tell them it's wrong.

Devdas - thanks. About this time last year there was a conference in Amman, Jordan attempting to do just this, getting religions to come together to promote peace and condemn violence. King Abdullah is doing a good job, and I hope our new president does too.

God Bless You

Last word on this subject. I've been doing some studying and there is no cleric who could condemn voilence. It's a little different on that side of the fence.

But - let me say that religion really doesn't matter. You have christian groups who will not wield a weapon or lift a hand to strike back and on the other extreme you have militant christian groups that are constently under watch who believe that if you are not one of the promised people, you need to die. So it is in all religions all around the world. You have the good, the bad and the ugly. I think I fit in that ugly group.

There is good news in Iraq, they now have a government, maybe now we will see less violence and troops will be able to come home next Christmas.

For those of you who supported a war in Iraq - you're not completely wrong. Saddam has killed an estamated 6 million and 500 shiite and kurds leaving only loyal sunni, who I'm sure some opposed him also. Almost as bad as hitler - and we'll hear more about that at the trial and feel more justified for our actions. There is a right way to do the right thing, and then there's the wrong way to do the right thing. Children make mistakes and learn, we need to do the same.

I am a muslim too, and severly condemn all kinds of terrorist acts, regardless if they are under the name of christianity or Islam or Judisim.It is clear in Islam that we muslims are not allowed to hurt non combatants, women, children, people in prayer and people who ask for peace.
People who commit terrorist activites under the name of Islam are enemies of mankind, and should be put to death, as these people are so stubborn and have been so completely brainwashed, that even if they spend 50 years in prison, they will not change. What we all need to do is to target the institutions where impreshinable minds are brainwashed.

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What we all need to do is to target the institutions where impreshinable minds are brainwashed.

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What or whose institutions are we talking about our's or their's?

Seems to be a lot of brainwashing going around these days. I think Angle of Death was talking about their's.

What does it take to get someone to strap a bomb on themselves, go into a crowd of people and blow themselves up?