What's Wrong With Islams Leaders? - Page 3

Ah yes, I forgot about those French and British colonizations. I definitely agree with you, DumbTeen. They ruined the futures of many regions by colonizing a people and then abandoning them in poverty and turmoil. Today's problems in Haiti stem from colonization, for example.

Then why don't they just forsake their God and their scripture and their whole religion and declare war. What is this bullshit about Allah and having virgins in heaven if you kill innocent people. Wrong - I will not sympathize with this thinking. There very own scriptures don't even teach this.

We are not that bad, neither is Israel. Israel even offered to help with the earthquake in Iran and they wanted no part of it.

Israel was a nation in the promised land that has only been returned there. Granted we should have never gotten involved.

But I am not an infidel, you are not an infidel, we are not infidels. Maybe if they would just stop blowing up innocent Jews they might discover that Jews aren't that bad of people either.

You're not going to justify a man walking on a bus with a bomb strapped to him and blowing himself up and killing many other innocent people because he believes it will get him to heaven. This is wrong, very wrong. If any one blesses such activity in the name of God is not of God.

"We are not that bad, neither is Israel. Israel even offered to help with the earthquake in Iran and they wanted no part of it. "
Its politically embarassing to get help from your archenemy. The US would do the same to the USSR during the Cold War for example.

"Israel was a nation in the promised land that has only been returned there. Granted we should have never gotten involved. "
Israel was jewish land 2000 years ago. By that argument Hitler's declaration of war on Poland was valid : he wanted to reclaim land that was German only 25 years ago.

" Maybe if they would just stop blowing up innocent Jews they might discover that Jews aren't that bad of people either. "
The Israelis have spent plenty of time terrorizing palestinians and chasing them from their land.
Both sides are being close-minded, both have suffered and both have legitimate grievances.

Even the Jews resorted to terrorism when they were ruled by British Imperialists in Palestine. The suffering and humiliation to muslims in recent years have been appaling. This does not make their bombings legitimate, but it explains them.

Yeah, read the book Dawn by Elie Wiesel if you want more information on Jewish terrorism against the British in Palestine.

Granted, suicide bombing is very wrong, but this does not make Israel and its creation good. If Israel had been established correctly, maybe people wouldn't feel as though they had to commit suicide bombings. The UN of 1948 is as much responsible for today's problems in Israel/Palestine as anyone else, in my opinion.

The whole situation is a mess indeed as I am sure we can all agree on that. I am thinking that the question of this thread could be turned around as well- What is wrong with christian leaders or jewish leaders for that matter? Sure suicide bombings are wrong but so are many of the Isreali tactics such as teritorial expansion, retaliatory strikes (aircraft) etc. I think the suicide bombers are misslabaled as religious radicals- I think they are motivated out of extreme anger in that there homes and or families may have been lost and they have no standing force to oppose the aggresors and suicide bombings are there only means to strike back.
One man's terrorist is anothers freedom fighter-

There are a lot of good Jews who feel ashamed of what has and continues to occur. It is the politicians who promote this for God only knows why politicians are so stupid.

Both me and my wife have looked into the history of this thing. It isn't a clear cut black and white issue. There are Jews who are very friendly to Palestinians and likewise there are Palestinians who are friendly to Jews, but both sides are cautious, as anything at anytime could happen, and unfortunately it is the innocent who die, not the responsible parties.

This is my issue - the suicide terrorist. As I explained to my Arab friend who I no longer here from. I can remember a time when the Israeli army was only allowed to use rubber bullets on the Palestinians. It sure has escalated since then. Obviously their tactics of suicide bombing is not working. Also, we both agreed that there were sympathetic Jews to their cause. That being so, what if one of them should get killed or hurt by a suicide bomber? It is not helping their cause. He said, as one of you said, it is out of anger and rage that they do this. No, this is not normal human rage. Ask a black man or an Indian if they would step on a bus and blow it up killing themselves and other innocent people with them. I can remember a time when a black man was not supposed to use the same drinking fountain as the rest of us. I had a friend in the Navy who watched his brother get hung by white racist.

These men who get on a bus and blow themselves up are brainwashed to do this. One could argue that it is not out of religious conviction, but it isn't done out of patriotism either. These men are TRAINED to do this. They believe they are doing a great deed and that they will be greatly rewarded. It has nothing to do with anger or rage. The religious machine that supports this is VERY wrong. This is my argument, this my complaint. I'm reading the Quran, and so far it does not appear that it supports any of this.

They don't believe that Jesus was the savior, but they do believe in his teachings. Jesus taught to turn the other cheek. The Indians live with us peacefully, so do the black people. The Palestinians can live in peace with the Jews. It can happen, but you have to want it to happen. And if they're not going to follow there own beliefs, then what are they fighting to preserve. They are proving daily that they are fighting for no other reason than to die. That's foolish, and a religious organization that supports this is wrong

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A Palestinian suicide bomber killed eight people on a crowded Jerusalem bus on Sunday on the eve of World Court hearings into a controversial barrier Israel says will ensure its security against such attacks.

Police said around 60 people were wounded in the blast, which turned the green number 14 bus into a charred skeleton at a busy intersection near the Inbal Hotel, where leaders of major U.S. Jewish organizations were meeting.

"People were screaming 'mommy, daddy'. There were body parts everywhere including some hands and feet scattered outside the bus," medic Reuven Pohl said.

Israeli leaders were expected to meet late on Sunday to discuss how to respond to the bombing, a political source said.

The World Court begins hearings in The Hague (news - web sites) on Monday on the legality of the West Bank barrier that Israel says keeps suicide bombers out, but which Palestinians call a land grab.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/n
m/20040222/ts_nm/mideast_dc

OK, look at the otherside of your own statement

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No, this is not normal human rage. Ask a black man or an Indian if they would step on a bus and blow it up killing themselves and other innocent people with them. I can remember a time when a black man was not supposed to use the same drinking fountain as the rest of us. I had a friend in the Navy who watched his brother get hung by white racist.

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Yes . . . I can remember a time when a black man was not supposed to use the same drinking fountain as the rest of us. I had a friend in the Navy who watched his brother get hung by white racist. No, this is not normal human beings to fill themselves with such out-rage!

Just like every Christian/Catholic I know defends the South American slaughters as not being Christian, but an ultra-violent and miss-guided faction of Christianity, Muslim Terrorists likely have very little to do with the Muslim religion in its purest form.

Yes, but you are missing the point he was trying to make. Islamic leaders were asked to condemn these terroristic "jihads" (or whatever they are called), yet they chose not to. If this is not part of their religion, why won't they just stand up and say it's wrong?

UnderDawg - THANK YOU. All I want is to here is an Islam religious leader condemn these actions. Because if they don't, they actually encourage this activity. Every time someone brings this up all we here is, bad Israel, bad Israel. It isn't bad Israel who is dieing, but innocent people. Even in Iraq, innocent Iraqis are dieing, because there is a group of people who believe that this is a good thing, the will of God, and those who participate are blessed beyond all belief. If Islam doesn't condemn, then they condone it.

A bit of retropect, how many Christian clergy, took a stand about US invasion of Iraq? A reminder of the Presidency daring anyone to oppose his (US) actions.

you're right. Most of your conservative christian groups supported this while lesser known more liberal groups had been against it from the beggining. The Pope did make a statement, can't remember it off hand. It wasn't exactly against any military action, but it didn't support it either. But I think once we declared war the Catholic church condemned it.

But I don't think war equals terrorism. It can, but not always.

This whole thing started from the twin towers, and I'm going back to it, because I remember. The terrorists are all about targetting inocent people. Most of the people who died had nothing at all to do with suffering Palestinians. Yet, when religious leaders of the Muslim faith were asked if they condemn what had accured. There only reply was to blame Isreal. By dodging the subject and not condemning these acts, they show support.

Ofcourse you know that I didn't vote for war - but I don't believe we purposely targeted innocent civilians. I don't think America is on an equal footing with the carelessness of terrorists, and I don't even put Isreal there (sharon is pretty close).

But, yes, the religious conservatives and the political conservatives play the same field, and it is because of this, we must uphold seperation of church and state.

I repeat, religion sucks.

quote:

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But, yes, the religious conservatives and the political conservatives play the same field, and it is because of this, we must uphold seperation of church and state.

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If by separation of church and state, you mean that government shouldn't be bias toward one religion over another then I agree with you.
But the separation in this country is bias toward the religion of capitalism, even if they don't call it a religion.
Christianity isn't just the belief that Jesus is the Christ but adherence to the principles layed down by Him.
Everyone should have the right to belief, (or unbelief) without bias under the Law, wealth & fame shouldn't make a few above the law . . .

I agree, I still don't understand why lawyers ads are legal. Private lawyers make the courtroom and unfair battlefield.