The God Thread - Page 2

Well most people who have faith will disagree with you. Or we wouldn't have 3 large branches of monotheism and a huge number of sub-branches and split-offs.
So unless most people who claim they have faith don't really have faith, I doubt me having faith in something will make me realise everyone else has faith in the same thing.

You can believe what ever you choose. You have choosen not to believe in god, that is your choice. You are right about what most people believe. But so what. Most people have been wrong for centuries. Those who have discovered truth are those who thought for themselves and didn't concern themselves with what other people thought.

But what puzzles me is why is it that people who claim to not believe in god feel they have to challange those of us who do. What are you trying to prove, and to whom? me or you!

"But what puzzles me is why is it that people who claim to not believe in god feel they have to challange those of us who do. What are you trying to prove, and to whom? me or you!"
I don't know I've always liked to debate. I like to have my views corrected and perfected through debates (though I'll admit I prefer proving I'm right even more )

"Those who have discovered truth are those who thought for themselves and didn't concern themselves with what other people thought."
I find this wrong. Simply wrong. We can only have correct views if we incorporate and consider other people's views and opinions.
If we limit ourselves to our own perceptions and thoughts, we'll always have a very wrong worldview.

Ah - some people just like to argue.

If you believe something - you go forward with it You don't normally check first to see if everyone will agree first. You don't limit your discoveries to what others will accept. We don't always find truth, it finds us.

Whatever we discover or find to be true will be challenged. Whether or not it concerns them or it will have any effect on them, they will challenge. We will choose to defend or not to defend and then we may be forced to defend ourselves.

It would be so much easier if we all came upon the same truth at the same time and we could all agree. But that rarely happens. Somebody has to first step forward and say slavery is wrong. The white race is not a higher race, etc. Like most people did once believe. But someone who saw the truth had to stand up against the crowd. Eventually with much "debate" the crowd began to see the truth. That is the way it works.

But criticize if you will, because thats easy. It takes many hours to build a fine piece of furniture and it only takes five minutes to tear it up. The person who tears up the furniture might believe they are the greater for this.

This thread is supposed to be about God. You mentioned that you couldn't figure out what God to follow. Ok - so - you're debating what?

I was kind enough to give you my advice. You don't like my advice - you think you're so smart - go figure it out for yourself.

"But criticize if you will, because thats easy. It takes many hours to build a fine piece of furniture and it only takes five minutes to tear it up. The person who tears up the furniture might believe they are the greater for this."
My piece of furniture is atheism! Sure its not beautiful but its simple and practical. If you can tear up my beliefs then we'll be even

"This thread is supposed to be about God. You mentioned that you couldn't figure out what God to follow. Ok - so - you're debating what?"
My argument FOR being atheist is never a reason to believe one god over another. Because of the nature of monotheistic religions (all powerful, all knowing, 1 god) only 1 of them can be correct.
On top of that it seems like a fairly arbitrary belief... but that's just me.

"I was kind enough to give you my advice. You don't like my advice - you think you're so smart - go figure it out for yourself."
I think I have figured it out, atheism. This thread asked me to share my views, so I did! And me debating with you at all is proof I am not sure of my belief...
Its 2 way thing, you send me your view, I tear it up, I send one back you tear it up. We repeat with corrected views each time until we either end up with the same view or we reach a point we fundamentaly disagree on.

" Yet in my lifetime I have seen something no less miraculous with the rebirth of the state of Israel."
Well just because 1 part of the book is true doesn't mean the whole thing is.

Israel's success can be tied to its aid from the US, its poor neighboors, sympathy from just about every developped country and a little luck.

I don't tear up furniture

First there was the Hindu Religion who believed in many gods. For everything there was a god. Much like many of our American Indian religions, and our Pagen religions.

Abraham was a part of the Hindu Religion. Because his faith was great, the one God found him and told him to move, his ancestors would be brought to a great promised land. This promised land thing is very interesting, because a lot of different religions have a promised land. Including the Hopi Indians. The ant people brought them to the promised land. They all have there creation stories and there flood stories. The Hopi Indians did not believe in one god, they believed in the ant people.

Abraham is the father of the Jewish religion and the Islam Religion. The God that these two religions worship are the same God. They both worship the God of Abraham.

Christianity is a brake off from the Jewish Religion. So the God of the Jewish, Islam and Christian religions are the same God.

Budha, another break off from Hinduism follows a one God concept, but it is different. It is a god within, a part of you, one discovers. Very interesting.

Zoroastrianism is yet another reliegion that had broken off the Hindu religion, they too believe in one god. There god sounds a lot like the god of Abraham.

If you cannot believe in a God of whatever, then you should study the God gods to determine which would be best for you to believe in.

But if you choose to be Athiest - I'm not going to try to change your mind. And you are not going change mine.

I've prayed to God all my life. God had answered many of my prayers. God visits me in my dreams. I can no more stop believing in God then I could make you start. Religion you find for yourself. Nobody can find it for you.

Not to interrupt the discussion as to point out something that I saw for the first time and it struck me as a little odd.
In the Lakota traditions, the supreme power resides in the form of Wakan Tanka which divided himself into two aspects, which each are subdivided into two aspects (4), etc.
The aspects of the four, represents 1) SkanSkan that gives all things their motion 2) Wi the sun, who is Chief of the Gods, ruling over the rest of creation although Wi derives his power from SkanSkan 3) Inyan, stone and 4) Maka Ina, the earth.
I have long noted the striking similarities with the Christian traditions of Christ being the Lord ruling over (mankind) creation and deriving His power from GOD.
Looking at your(s) statements, I thought about the arch-angels, etc comparing them to the Greek Pantheon, which as well had its' rank and file. So what makes one a monotheistic and the others not?

Angels will tell you not to worship them. They are fellow servents. The best example I can think of is the Ascension of Abraham when he trys to worship Michael. The Chief archangel is really adament about getting Abraham not to worship him

"I don't tear up furniture"
Well its more like pointing out the bad parts of each our furniture. "your legs are bad, look how mine are"

"Abraham is the father of the Jewish religion and the Islam Religion. The God that these two religions worship are the same God. They both worship the God of Abraham.

Christianity is a brake off from the Jewish Religion. So the God of the Jewish, Islam and Christian religions are the same God."
Even if they are the same god, many god-worshipping people don't seem to think that or we wouldn't have the middle eastern mess.

Nice responce dschis, Jesus never put himself as being equal to GOD. I was taught to pray to GOD in the name fo Jesus, but a lot of 'Christians' pray to Jesus and other 'Saints' too?

There might be a doctrine that is the truth, I rather doubt it. It might be close, but it you wouldn't know it if it was. I don't think it is important. And I don't think it's righteous cutting down othere people's beliefs. If you read the gospils you'll find an odd thing about Jesus, the only religious leaders he cut on was the scribes and pharasees. The so called experts and religious leaders in that time and place. Because they thought they were so smart, and he knew they weren't. Jesus was friendly with all the castaways, including those who believed differently. This also leads me to believe that doctrine is not important, its whats in a persons heart. You can study all of your life until you have the most perfect understanding of the most perfect teaching, but what has it got you, and what great thing have you done on this earth.

Mother Theresa, though she may have worshiped mother marry and prayed to beads, I believe that she will have a higher status in heaven then the rest of us.

Mother Theresa truely deseveres our respect, I would have to say to all that I agree with you in that respect.
In fact, I would have to admit this about Ghandi, if there is a heaven I would hope to see him there . . .
not that I doubt his worthyness but rather I question mine.
When associated with fundalmentalist, they became very upset with me about worship of Christ. So the question is about semantics (?) and the lack of understanding.
The only thing I remember about monotheism was my public school teacher statement that 'polytheism was displaced by monotheism because it was easier to accept and worship than a pantheon of Gods. While Christianity teaches the triune of power in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. So I wonder where the idea of monotheism came, is it an extention of biblical teaching?
My tribe, Native American are often seen as an uncivilized, ignorant people. Yet in their culture existed a better understanding of the world (in rudimentary form), which surpassed the civilized cultures of europe and the meditrerrian seas. They developed a logical perception of mathematics without the numbering system (arabic) or the greek civilization lofty thinking. Todays society has just come understand things that had been known though ignorant savages they may be?

You're indian - Cool!

When I was a teenager I worked in a Nature center. It was 80 acres of land returned to nature. There I became closest to God. I really did. It was so exciting. When I got home from work, I wanted to tell everyone - but tell them what? (I saw a tree, a rabit crossed my path). A wonderful feeling I did not know how to share. At night I would dream about the nature center, almost as if I was in heaven.

Its like this, God painted a picture, its nature, when we are a part of it, we are a part of God.

I would have to say that the indian has gotten closer to God than any religion. It has nothing to do with teaching. Its an experience you can't put in words or explain to anyone else. I'm sure the indian tried, and nobody understood.