The God Thread - Page 11

The fruit is not the point, which fruit it was, but the act of disobediance to God.
It had to be an action. A physical disobediance.

The act thus brot on guilt, and with guilt was the knowledge of good and bad.
In guilt they evolved to all other conscience understandings of bad vs good.

That is how their eyes opened. The first revealing act gave them 'food for thot' and made them feel remorseful for their defiance to God. A deliberate act that made them understand they did something wrong.

What do you think life would be if they hadn't done this. Do you ever stop to think of what this life of Adam and Eve consists of? I don't have a clear memory of what exactly was stated to describe it, espescially in terms of just what it would be like on a day to day basis, let alone the point of it. Before god said the apple was bad it was fine, untill it was "used" as a test of obedience it was just an apple, satan was said to entice this disobedience right? Making it more than just disobedience, it was coercion, trickery if you like. Adam and Eve are defined as the epitamy of innocent, are they not? Where they deemed curious I wonder? Are they relatable to the innocence of children? If so, they are said to lack the ability of understanding the concept of consequence, untill it interferes with natural survival instinct. They know what hurts and feels good, not what "don't do that" means thats just that is the product of social interaction with any being to another.

The argument of god's omnipotence and the contradicting idea of the existance of free will is one on this issue that truly intrigues me. If god has total conrtrol and can see all including the future, then rightly there can be no force or action that is unseeable or able to operate other than under his control, making any life just an extension of himself but not of unique or seperate origin. To say that he did give man free will would have to mean he is no longer all powerful and that his ability to see mans future is also taken away because he cannot know what will happen, including claims of prophecy said to originate from god.

Meaning none of it makes enough sense or provides enough evidence or answers to be claiming anything as factual, take your faith for what it is, that people should be good because thats what feel good, (its funny, because it seems that you have to do things that feel bad, most work and human interaction at various even often times, to feel good, and things that feel good are what make you feel bad, "Ah Louie, how you love you precious guilt." Lestat to Louie in Interview with a Vampire. Tom to Brad for the movie.

God is omnipotent, but he gave man a free will. To choose.
That is the definition of true love.
We as humans understand that concept in 'Love something set it FREE...etc'

Let me explain how you say the devil used trickery. He did use it, in a cunning sense he did not tell an untruth.

He said God did NOT want them to have the same knowledge as God has. The knowledge of good and bad.
That was true.

He said if they took a bite, they would know.
Essentially he was correct.

They had been told they could have anything else in the garden. But the ordinary fruit, was a test...and because they disobeyed the one very simple test, they took it upon themselves the GUILT they felt in doing wrong.

Up to that point, they did nothing wrong. Because they obeyed. When they disobeyed, they took action to defy the one thing God asked of them.

Their eyes were opened, and they learned what it was to be BAD...

It is NOT good to be given everything you need in life, and turn around and defy the one who made you, and loved you.


Because man was given a free will, shows us that God loves us. Because mankind was given everything, what good is it for God to let them not take all that was given to them, and do one small thing...avoid eating something he asked them not to.

Not an extremely difficult test, but a test all the same.
God knows the future, but he still does not interfer with the choices man makes. IF he did then what need would we have of free will?

He knows what our choices could be, but alas, still allows us our own mind to take the directions we choose.

Well, firstly I'll refer you back to my above statement about the claim tells of trickery used on innocents that cannot comprehend consequences, and yet are punished none the less, trickery by a force that is of a creature that has no free will by design, if indeed angels were not given it, and whatever the deal is with the devil and a war with god is, all of which makes no sense if your god is all powerful.

See, I also have trouble with those who speak about things as if they were there and just know all there is to know. But besides that, I also feel you speak things that just sound good or preferable to you, which brings me back to another above point of what good is the life of adam and eve for anything, would you like it?

God tricked adam and eve, god made the devil, but see, god made humans imperfect and that means that they will sin, god made us sinners, free will isn't the reason for sin its human imperfection in terms of what people would prefer them to be, not even what is right or wrong with them, and even though god made us imperfect, when he made adam and eve there appearantly was no sin to be made anyway, then he said don't eat an apple and suddenly there was sin in the world. Which still makes little sense, because of all the weird ways the bible gets interpreted and what is then deemed wrong or sinful because, I don't remeber too many religious people getting mad at anyone for eating apples, unless they do it really loud or when they should be working.

God made sin, if he wanted people to not sin we wouldn't. What you claim makes no sense other than, to repeat myself from other threads, to be used as a coping mechanism for the innate human fear of lonliness, life without purpose, and death., oh, and reality and all its cruelties and pain.

It is the easy way out and feels really good, religious belief that is, its called the opiate of the masses for a reason.

u r all sad

"God is omnipotent, but he gave man a free will. To choose.
That is the definition of true love."
Since when? Giving a child the choice of 'freely' jumping out of a window is not love.

Sometimes you have to cruel to be kind. That's a very weak definition of love. All God has given man is an impression of freedom, so that when we fuckup we feel guilty. That's all he's given us.

My beliefs in God are really complex, so I'll try to describe them in as few words as possible.
- First, there is a God in the sense that there is a Source of morality and wisdom seperate from conscious human thought. This Source has had countless manifestations through history, and we call these manifestations by various names - God, Allah, Dao, Brahma, etc.
-The reason for so many different religions is that there are so many different cultures, and God has to give the same wisdom to each of them. Religion is only the vehicle, it's the wisdom every religion teaches that is the important thing.
-If you compare this wisdom, the messages about ethics and human nature and where we come from, you find that all religions come to the same basic conclusions.
-I believe the only way it is possible for so many different cultures in different times and places to have this sort of common spiritual understanding is if it came from an outside Source - what is popularly called "God."
-There is only one Source, but this Source has two components. The Taoists call them yin and yang, the Australian Aborigines call them Earth Mother and Earth Father. Even in the Muslim Qur'an, God often refers to Himself as "We." Nothing in the universe can be reduced down further than two components. Even the most basic definition of existance - something - only has meaning when it is related to a second concept - nothing.
-As for atheism and agnosticism, they only make sense when God is reduced to the image a specific religion has of God. God doesn't need human worship, God doesn't even need us to obey God's rules, but we need to obey those rules because they tell us how we're meant to live in the world now that we don't have primate instinct as a guide.

Evryone must agree that in the end, there can be no proof for or against the existecne of God. It is a simple as this. This is the base truth for releigon. So then what can we do? Nothing other than have hope as I have said many of times.