The right to dress provocatively? - Page 3

I liked your animal hunting analogy Truth, although women of all sizes, ages and colors are raped. The truth lies in the predators ability to determine the type of woman he can overpower. It may be in the way she carries herself, her lack of awareness of her surroundings, or something else.

Again, I must add that the rapist gets more pleasure from dominating and control rather than the sexual act itself.

Decius, you are addressing the wrong risk factor.
IF your daughter was going to a party (or whatever) in a bad part of town where "rapes are known to occur", then WHY would she "definitely" be going???
Dad. Its not the dress code that's the problem here... To attempt to absolve DAD of allowing risky behavior, the responsibility is shifted to the choice of clothes the DAUGHTER wears...
Typical guy thinking. Sorry, but it is.

Ok... Decius, YOU HAD ME!! YOU SOO HAD ME!!

But if you are saying that if someone is wearing a dress that exposes more and she is raped that it is also kinda her fault for it because she wore the dress then that is wrong. Ok I'll give it too you if she was raped while walking down a bad section of the town at like 12:00 alone. That I will give you because it screams out RAPE ME! But if she is at a party or a get together or is in daylight with someone or something then it is not one single bit her fault. Just because someone has a sick mind doesn't mean that you have to sacrafice certain freedoms because of it.
It only matters how you are dressed if you don't have protection. If you aren't with someone that could protect you if the situation came around then you should cover up. So really you shouldn't think what should I wear but who should I go with.

1st Decius, I understand where you are going with the whole fictional daughter scenario. Furthermore, I don't think that every father wants his daughter to wear a Alaskan snow suit. Any father that cares about his daughter is going to give her her own space, let her out in the real world, and at the same time protect her to his best ability.

The question still remains, do ALL women derserve the right to dress provocatively, the answer is, and will always be, YES.
Should women dress down to deter it, NO, carry weapons, at least you are not damaging your "self" by changing because of a possibility.
By wearing Blue in my neighborhood, I am taking a chance of getting attacked by people in my neighborhood, but it is my favorite color, so fuck it. If you let worry control your lives, you cannot live your life, which it is what its for right?

Sorry Decius, but I am sticking with my statements. Rape is considered a sexual crime but I disagree with your statement:
"Sure, it's the power, sure it's the control, but it is also DEFINITELY the femininity. "

As a therapist who has worked for rape crisis, I know for a fact that many women who do not dress provacatively or even look really feminine get raped. YOU can try to imagine what you would go for if you were a rapist, but that is not the same as being one.

I have not been offended because I did not conceive that you would even mean that a woman is responsible for being raped! However, if this is your point, then I would say that NO One, Male Or Female, DESERVES to be raped or beaten period. Even if they dressed a certain way or took a walk in the wrong part of town or what ever....NO ONe Deserves That.



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Well...ideally people would drive the speed limit. Driving slower can also cause accidents..and not all accidents happen at intersections either. You can be hit by a drunk driver no matter how careful you are too

My ears are not deaf, I just know What I know

Decius,
The alaskan snow suit was my own two cents...hence the "FURTHERMORE". I was agreeing with what you said about the 'letting your daughter go to the party' scenario you presented! You cannot and will not hold your daughter hostage 24 hours a day, she will definitly get out one way or another.
I do not apologize for anything I believe in, and although it could be true, that wearing my favorite color HAS, and probably get me into trouble later on, I will not change this. I will not change who I am to compensate for the ignorance of others. If I did, where would it stop.
Where would the hiding from your fears end, besides that, not many colors are nuetral anymore anyway.
I think whether we're talking about provacative dress, or colors, YOU and only you can chose. You have to decide what works for you, whether it differs from place to place (i.e. late at night in a parking lot) or not, it is your choice.

Slow down there Decuis....your working too hard.

Another kooky.......... I hope you don't get us mixed up...

It gets frustrating when you're trying to "type your point across"...

Very good point wes. I am in favor of electing a new "yell button"....Basically, when you can't "yell" loud enough with caps, you can send a sound clip to go along with your post. Maybe that will get the point across a little better

I like that idea...Decius?

I love the fade out... all we need is the screen to wave and we can make it into a flash back.
Also, I think a slow driver would cause more accidents, seeing as how there is road rage, many people will want to exit their car and proceed on kicking the drivers ass.

but staying on subject.. i can see where you are going, and it makes sense

Mentioned it Decius because you said it " it IS your personal responsibility to drive a little slower and a little more carefully around intersections." And I responded, that accidents oocur even with the precautions such as those.....the same goes with rape. I am not arguing, just sharing my views....no need to get angered

Currently in our local headlines a 51 year old woman was raped in a hospital parking lot around 5 pm, after being in pulled into a van. Later in the week, another woman, (age 50) was sitting in her van and the rapist attempted to get in. She got away fortunately.

Serial rapists often choose victims similiar in age, body type and characteristics.

I've read nothing besides the first post, so what I say might have been said over and over again.

Anyone should have the right to dress however they like. We, as humans, are given free choice and it is our complete decision to do with that what we will.

We have the decision to be able to kill another person. People choose not to because they may be afraid of prison or their morals counteract, but we, as humans, /have the choice/ to kill someone or not.

People who dress provocatively specifically when they will be out alone at night or anywhere by themselves, should understand that they are accepting that someone may or may not attack them because of what they are wearing. They can choose whether or not they feel they are in danger.

Another good point is that people should not wander around terrified of what /may/ happen. We should not force ourselves into a box of constraint and fear just because the possibility of something may happen.

Basically, anyone should be wary of running a yellow light to wearing provocative clothing. These are times where anything can happen. Just yesterday, a man in Memphis was murdered at a bank located /next to a police station/ at 1pm. Three men approached him, asked for his money, he said no. They beat him up and shot him before taking his money and leaving. He survived but is in the ICU.

We make choices as soon as we wake up or step out of our front door and anything can happen because of these choices. We shouldn't go around wondering whether people should way provocative clothing or not, or if such can make someone want to attack them if they weren't wearing it. We should wonder why people choose to attack a woman who is wearing provocative clothing, and if that even really makes a difference.

just got this in an email today. sort of thought it fit the topic...

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were iterviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

1) The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2) The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

3) They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4) The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m.

5) The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

6) The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

7) Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

8) If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

9) These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth
it.

10) Several defence mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here,
we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up, you lose appeal as a target.

11) If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back.

Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh -- HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

14) After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is
that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

15) When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

16) Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behaviour, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.


no mention of clothing, although hairstyle seems to be a big deal.