AFTER DEATH - Page 4

Some intersting thoughts Melkor-
Life after death does seem to an aluring idea and certainly makes death sound more comfortable- But for me that is what it seems to be stories to stop worrries regarding our fears of non exsistence. The idea of a long (permanent) slumber does however sound appealing as well.

Which is why people will have fun speculating randomly about death forever
Seems to be something which comes to mind more now than before. In considerations of other threads, I find myself having consideration in light of such aspects. Interesting!

Many of us have been taught that there is a heaven and a hell. To be good because if we are good then we get to heaven and to not be 'naughty' so as we can avoid hell, I have been thinking about this at some length.
Be good and you'll go to heaven, be nasty and you'll go to hell seems to be the mantra which many children are brought up with but if you give it deeper consideration then surely it cannot be just? If you are good merely for personal benefit or to avoid punishment then you are not actually good, you are instead being selfish.
The total length of out lives in the expanse of eternity is negligible, you can barely count it but the power we hold over the future in every second of our life has infinite power over the future. Consider this: If you were to travel back in time for just a short moment and you accidentally startled a bird before returning to your time of origin. The life of the bird would be entirely different, the chain of events would have been changed and it would be in different places at different times. It may die or find a mate as an indirect result of your actions; your action changes everything which follows it and all through eternity. The bird may not make a child smile or it may not whiten a man's black suit thus putting him in a foul mood. Everything we do changes the future, we should do all we can to tip the future toward good and away from bad because it would follow from the bird that when we do something which is good then it pleases those around us. It encourages them to do the same and so your good actions flow through them and cause more good. Your positive actions cause the following chain of events to be more positive. As such your good action casts an unbreakable light onto all of the future, likewise if you do wrong. If you are malicious or you cause a fight or disagreement then you put those around you in a bad mood, you cause them to be unhappy and so your actions will cast a shadow on the future. Your negative actions cause all the events that follow to be that bit more negative.
To be good you should act to improve the lives of those around you, not to the benefit of yourself. Everyone has the capacity for both good and bad, that much is evident and so our duty and purpose in life is to create as much good and as little bad as possible. Simple.
The soul. The soul is, I suspect, not the vague 'thing' inside us which makes us who we are. When we die we die, we cease to live. The soul as I see it is similar but not the same as the accepted version, it is what we are, it is the sum of our actions. We never die because our actions will last forever. In that way we have eternal life but we cannot watch-over those we cared about except by the way our actions during life continue to give them hope and guidance after we are gone. Likewise heaven and hell do exist in sort but not in the 'big white castle in the clouds' Vs 'fires of hell, pits of burning sulphur'. The idea of being forever blessed and seated with the saints still rings true but in a more realistic way, we do not physically go and live with them up in the sky for that would be absurd. However if at the end of our lives we have done enough good and inspired others to do good then the good we've caused during our life will be multiplied thousands of times and so we will have caused as much good in the world as the saints did themselves.
To understand this you need to discern between primary goods and secondary goods, when we are there for someone in need or surrender something we value to help another then we are doing good, we are directly responsible for it and so it is a 'primary good'. What follows is that the person you helped is better able (or more inclined) to help others and through your inspiration they can go on to help others. You are responsible for this but indirectly, this is the 'secondary good'.

Primary good causes Secondary good and so they mulitply.

Our 'secondary good' is the 'primary good' of the other person. From this we know that when we do something good it is not solely our own doing but shared with those who influenced us, be they friends, family or God.
Good forms good and so the chain continues. We should be careful not to do bad however for the infinite value of our good can easily be reversed into infinite bad by the way it encourages others to do wrong.
'Heaven' is the knowledge at the end of our life that the good we have done will improve and enrich the lives of thousands who follow us in eternity. Likewise the notion of 'Hell' would be the realisation at the end of our life that through our own preventable mistakes we have caused misery for all the generations that follow, their lives would have been better if we had never been born. This is the real hell. Not the imaginary one which is painted for us through our life as children.

This is the real philosophy, the thinking of realists. There may be a reincarnation, there may be a big heaven where you go and live and are happy but there is no proof. I have put forward the ideas of the realists.

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But fun and speculation comes with confusion and much argument.

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Disagreement isn't bad, unless things get out of hand . . . in some rehab centers, they teach that cocaine as an activating agent for the release of the brain's natural endorphins. As such the pleasant feelings associated with certain activities to the related response, cause & effect.
If true then one could consider the related endorphin to esoteric experiences, good (godly) conduct and selfish (evil) condition could provide the soul (mental aspect) at death (as well as during one's life)?
So we could argue that soul's attitude at death produces either an eternal bliss or condemnation. Then too we could consider that this chemical condition acts as a biological barrier or fliter toward the soul and any afterlife.
Either of which would validate the Christian perception of being judged by our own judgements.
The resurreaction of the (physical body) does imply some sort of reincarnation but to what extent?

We accept that everything there is was, is, and ever will be. Matter just alters its form through time. Therefore, we are when alive just a manifestation of matter able to think, act, etc. When we die, our bodies, and everything they are made up of take on different forms. While parts of us may manifest again into perhaps a life form, a human for example - the chances of the same matter taking the same form (ie. the same person with the same mind) is inconceivable to us. Is it then perceivable that we would have the same thoughts? That is another question.

kant also said that threw reason one gains his or her soal. A kind of entity or substance, that has nothing to do with the cocept of time, unlike our bodies. So it may stand that when the body sees the end of its time that substance beter known as the soul remains. Know what happens wene it leaves the body is a different issue.

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hola everyone. just wondering what your after death theories are.
do we go to heaven/hell?
do we simply cease to exist?
are we born again?
what do you think?

i have a few theories but i think that one could be that after we die we simply go back to the start and live the same life again
i guess that would be kind of unimaginative of our creator [if we have one] though.

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I do not believe in reincarnations.
For a few "valid to me", points.

Number one~ We would have to struggle many many years to accomplish something that would not only tire out ourselves, but we would be like living in purgatory. The soul so close to God again and again, but unable to attain the goal.

Number two~ At the final resurrection, which body would we have? How could we reunite with our bodies, if there are so many of them?

Number three~ This would be too easy to 'do it til you get it right' and therefore the bible would obsolete. Why would God even bother giving a directive, if He knew we would be here for eons repeating things til we got it right?

Number four~ No where in the bible does it mention we are given several chances.

Number five~ This is a spoof in philosophy so that demons can fool us into believing we have many chances, therefore, not to worry to much for the sins we may commit now.

Number six~ God says He gives forgiveness because life is too short for man. That should tell you right there, many lives are not possible.

Number seven~ Why does the bible suggest cutting off hands to avoid hellfire, if we are to get another chance?

I believe we get one chance. You blow it, you have recompense to deal with.
Hell fire is real. Heaven is real. Not in belief of this, take your chances. Bless you and Peace.

I say we get recycled. Ironic, huh? You always throwing out that pop can or banana peel when no one was looking. But the last laugh is on you, because there's no way to avoid having the stored energy from your body returning to the system in the universe.

As for thought, or Self, I suppose the only preserved aspect is that in print and effect left to the world. The rest vanishes when you can no longer express it through an animate source. You are carried in the thoughts of those that remember you, but that which was not expressed is forever erased.

Speculation only.

I'll be the party pooper here.
When you die, that's it. There is no after-life, there is no heaven, no hell, there is the death of who you were, nothing more.

Frightening isn't it? Doesn't it scare the crap out of you to even consider this possibility? If not now, what until you're on your deathbed.

This is one reason for the invention of religion (ok it's a theory I have). Death is the greatest unknown. To sooth the minds of the population and, I believe, to convince everyone that they have the answers to all concerns, the inventors of religion came up with the theory of the after-life.

PS: God if I'm wrong, please let me in anyway. I've been good.....honest!

thinking that death is "the end" has never really "scared" me but rather, it seems to bore me more than anything.

There are different kinds of people. Some people (like me). I talk about me, only because I'm an expert on me, I can't speak for anyone else. I will believe in God/religion no matter what. Death is only one of a thousand reasons. For me, to think that there is no god, that's just impossible.

I think I'm smart enough to know that, that's just me. That's the kinda person I am. I suspect there are others like me. Just because I am this way, that does not mean that there is god/religion is true and there is life after death, and I'm enlightened and everyone else is lost. That being said.

There is another side to this coin. There are some people who can only believe what they can see, hear, touch and smell, and even that they question. But this is them, and this however does not make God/religion, life after death irrelevent. They just find it hard to believe.

So how do we discover who is right or wrong. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes there is just know way to know for a fact. And in these cases we should be able to share and respect eachothers opinion.

I had a dream once that I was walking out of a Luthern church and was shot three times in the back and died. I woke up. When I awoke I knew that I was a bank robber and the man who shot me was a bounty hunter. I believe that there is a good eighty percent chance that this was me in another life.

Believe It Or Not!

its funny you should mention something like this.

when i was very very young (5 and younger) i had many images in my head of a very dark smokey place. it was loud, very loud at times and also very hot. i was outside, laying down on my stomach, with somebody else right next to me. we were watching others in the distance altho it was very hard to see them because it was so dark and smokey.

later on i learned about the Civil War at school, i felt very close to the events of the Civil War (always have). i feel like i could have actually been there.

i know it sounds weird, im not saying i really was there or anything, but it sure does feel like it.

oh yea, and its funny because i had forgotten all about it until just a few days ago. my mom started talking about reincarnation and i just remembered all that stuff.

OKcitykid, thank you for your tolerance. That's hard to find in the 'One God' religions. Normally this kind of toleration would be found in the pagan ways of life. Historically, monotheists would not tolerate this kind of talk from one of it's subjects.

[So how do we discover who is right or wrong.]

We won't "discover' anything until we die. All we have, and all we can hope for, is respect for each others god, gods, or none of the above.

Keep dreamin' kid!

I've said this before. Ten years ago I would be in prison for the things I believe.

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We won't "discover' anything until we die. All we have, and all we can hope for, is respect for each others god, gods, or none of the above.

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I do agree. We're all just guessing. Your guess is just as good as mine.

if only the rest of the world was that understanding...