The end of the universe - Page 3

Re: Horace's post: "The universe, which is at this apparent time apparently expanding, contains enough as-yet undetected dark matter to provide the gravitas necessary to eventually reverse the outward inertia and ultimately collapse the physical universe into the mother of all black holes."

So we are talking about parallel universes here? I agree with what Horace says - it could have happened millions of times before and offers a much more believable explanation of the Big Bang than a creation of a higher being or the creation of matter from nothing. But where did all the matter come from in the first place?

The other point I wanted to discuss is that of the transition of matter through the black hole and into the parallel universe. The one theory that is forced upon me day and night by equally confused peers is that it is not until the last piece of matter in the universe (as we know it) has been vaccumed into the black hole that everything will be regurgitated out on the other side. So where does all the matter go in the meantime? There must be an alternative explanation.

Maybe it is like the chemical reactions that make up our world, energy (matter) flowing in both directions at diferent rates which establish an equilibrium?
Pugsl3yB0y: For example : we say the 1st dimension is a straight line, but what about if the 1st dimension is actually a point rather than a line? Is that possible? Because in order to have a line you need a point of beginning. Help me out here.

A geometric coordinate system is defined by the 2 riased to the power of x
(where x is the set of 0, 1, 2, 3, . . .) 2 raised to the power of x is equal the set {1, 2, 4, 8, . . .}
The formula derived from the Periodic Table of Chemistry distribute over the prime numbers which based upon the action of electo-magnetic fields of electrons . . . the periodic table also defines the elements by mass (nuclear particles) which is representative of a greater progression within the (electro-magnetic spectrum) electron orbitals. At the nuclear level, the inertial mass of the neutron eqauls the mass of a proton plus it's electron with their asssociated energy, therefore the relationship is established between neutrons and the component parts: protons and electrons.
The established relation of electron orbital and orientation in space of molecules also are in evidence within the nucleus. this implies that the distinction between neutrons and it's component part may be phase related. If this is valid then the progression within the elemental nucleus could represent alternate orbitals which exist parallel (coexisting) to our own (phase) matrix, alternate worlds (realities) may indeed exist just as stereo-specific isomers (organic ) natural molecules exists in our world (reality).

There's the 1st dimension, 2nd dimension, and the 3rd and 4th dimension.....but that can't be all....I can't really explain my thoughts on this one (due to the fact that it's just one of those things that only I can understand) But for some reason I believe that there is at least 9 dimensions, if not more. And what if we have our theories of dimensions incorrect? For example : we say the 1st dimension is a straight line, but what about if the 1st dimension is actually a point rather than a line? Is that possible? Because in order to have a line you need a point of beginning. Help me out here.

You can believe whatever you want, but the human brain is biologically incapable and always will be incapable in determining whether the universe is never ending or not. I believe the universe never ends, but it is absolutely impossible to prove that. But you may ask, how can it have always existed, the universe must have been created in the beginning. Maybe the universe always existed, something that can not be defined by the mainstream laws of matter and creation ideologies. Time, I believe is just a measurement only constructed within the human mind. If the universe is never ending (for which i think it is) then time is irrelevant. What really confuses me is- if there is no end there couldn't have been a start. And also, we have proven to our brain that we have obtained 'existence' but we only exist in ourselves. It is all a social construction.

actually u might know of it its called string theory and according to the theory everything is made of small small circular vibrations of energy names strings and in theory if u could shirnk down to the size of a string then u could ultimatly pass through one of these strings and enter another demenshion and they came up with this theory due to subatomic particles errr i cant rember the name of the ones that they have tracked but there are some that if they could ultimatly track named gravitons they could prove this theory they are tracking these subatomic particles going just poping up and idssapearing and they beleive that when a atom is destroyed (the atom smashers) that a gravaton will appear for a split moment and then return to its other demenshion...


The universes fate is intimately connected to its shape which in turn depends on a single number Omega: the ratio of the average mass density of the universe to the critical value required to just maintain equilibrium.


(this u already mentioned) An open universe, corresponding to omega less than one, will expand forever. Matter will spread thinner and thinner. Galaxies will exhaust their gas supply for forming new stars, and old stars will eventually burn out, leaving only dust and dead stars. The universe will become quite dark and, as the temperature of the universe will approaches absolute zero, quite cold. The universe will not end, exactly, just peter out in a Big Chill.

(this was also already mentioned also) The expansion of a closed universe, with an Omega greater than one, will slow down until it reaches a maximum size, when it begins its inward collapse. Like a video of the Big Bang and expansion run backward, the universe will become denser and hotter until it ends in an infinitely hot, infinitely dense Big Crunch--perhaps providing the seed for another Big Bang.

BUT one theory that has not been mentioned is Recent speculation now includes a pervasive growing field of mysterious repulsive energy that rips virtually everything apart. Although the universe started with a Big Bang, analysis of recent cosmological measurements allows a possibility that it will end with a Big Rip. As soon as few billion years from now, the controversial scenario holds, dark energy will grow to such a magnitude that our own Galaxy will no longer be able to hold itself together. After that, stars, planets, and then even atoms might not be able to withstand the expansive internal force. IN oter words atoms and matter as we know it will litteraly be riped apart due to its expanshion

u can read all about this at

http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://antwrp.
gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030510.html

and also at

http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://antwrp.
gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030510.html

Interesting thoughts and theories mentioned chilltime55. The amusing thing is all these theories are just crazy thoughts completely made up. But then again that's how theories are established. There isn't any significant evidence proving these are correct. The universe is so gargantuan that we will never know the answers. In fact I think the universe can't be measured, it's endless and always will be. If we knew the answers then we would have to see the whole picture, not our perspectives generated from our tiny corner of the universe.

i thought of the same thing long time back and got to a final conclusion. first let me answer you what is truth ..its something which remains for ever. If today i say that there is a stone lying in billion of years to come its wont even exist. let me put another question . What was there when there was nothing ?cause everthing has to exist at one point in time. every thing that exists today has to have a start and has to end as well. So my final conclusion is that nothing in this world is true, its all virtual as a counting which has no beginning( -n, -4, -3,-2,-1, 0 ,1,2,3,4- - - -) and no end and can go endlessly on both sides at the same time it cannot be materialistic (as counting stones)its has to be virtual to be possible. so guys for me we are living in a virtual world .Virtuality is the only truth cause it is un ending and can pretend to have ends as well. If not satisfied you can put a counter argument : avnindra saklani

Breezing through this interesting thread, I would like to point out some more recent scientific findings, theories and musings.

Some have spoken about the principle of the conversation of matter and energy. That matter cannot be destroyed, nor energy created. Back in the early twentieth century, this concept was refined slighty. Remember E=MC2 ? A minuet amount of matter can be converted to a massive amount of energy (aka atomic fission/fusion). A photon is both particle and wave.

The universe is expanding; and, recently, much to the surprise of most every cosmologist, at a measurably increasing rate. Eventually, should earth still be here, there would be no other galaxy close enough to detect.

String theory, which has not been fully accepted by the scientific community, remains an untestable hypothesis. Never-the-less, it has been adopted by many, and mathematically explains both the big bang, and answers many of the questions posed by those who were seeking a unified field theory. Stephen Hawking was even convinced enough to write that though it neither proved or disproved the existence of God, as far as the creation of this universe is concerned, made God superfluous.

As far as how the universe ends: mine ends the moment I step in front of that bus without looking.

avnindra,

I cannot endorse your proposition.

Firstly, you have made the assumption that time is not finite. No such assumption can be made. Time had a beginning. It is an intrinsic component of spacetime. It began at the very instant the big bang began. Time ends when the universe ends. To have forever, you must have time.

Secondly, if everything has an end, such as this universe, then all properties of this universe ends the moment it does. Since all properties ( including concepts of those properties, such as 'truth,' truth being defined as what is) ends with it.

Intellectually, yes, a series of numbers, such as the set of integers which you utilized do go on -- but these are mental constructs, as you,m yourself, proposed. "Virtual," as you put it. But if no mind exists, no constructs exist. Mathematics end together with the last mind.

Anything, including such things as numbers, time, or truth are not even nonsensical concepts in absolute void.

To really understand the concept of 'absolute nothing' is to not think. At all. Speaking for myself, I am not yet able to do this. I might be able to do this though, after I am dead.

The problem lies in language and human perception. Beginnings and endings are human terms and are subject to human interpretation. They are part and parcel of culture which is hardly scientific except as a study in animal interaction.