Catholics vs Christians - Page 9

Oh my brother, by no means did I think you came off like an asshole. I truly enjoy discussing topics such as this, but I may have confused you with some things I have said. Most churches came off the faith of Christianity, christianity is not a church nor a religion, in my beliefs. Christianity is best described as a Faith & Following of Jesus Christ, not a following of a church or a religion. Religion was created man, not by the Bible, Not by Jesus Christ, but by individuals that used it as a tool of control. History proves this, and it was primarily the Catholics, it was all Religions created, Martin Luther went off to start his due to his disbeliefs and dislike of the churches control...etc..... and so on....Religion was created for man's benefit, and personal beliefs and feelings have corrupted it so much it's to hard (in my heart) to follow any of them. I will choose to follow the lord, not some Priest, preacher, minister, or denomination.

As far as the pope was concerned...it was during the time period of the ceasars, a man such as Constantine(which the article i mentioned earlier contained) It was a pretty lengthy post, and I apologize....but please dont misunderstand me and thank you for understanding my voice of my opinion.

Anyways, I must go....my boys from U of Arizona have some work to do, and I cant miss a thing.....

Peace!

Ceasar can claim he wore underwear too...doesnt mean he did.

He knew nothing about Christanity.

IN fact, not only does the Church of Catholicism trace back to Peter, then Linus..etc

BUT it was the sole owner of her laws, we call the bible.

Every law in the bible was written for the Church's beginnings.

The only owner of the bible was the Catholic Church....and in order to read it, you had to go to church.

The priests taught tradition from the Apostles but every thing the Church still follows in tradition can be substantiated and backed up by the scriptural of the Bible.

Even today, the Church owns every popes body under St Peter's Basillica in Rome. Yes, even Peter.

They owned and kept original scriptures.

IT was not until Luther came and took Old Testament books out, 1534...? And the same books Christ Himself quoted.

Luther added, "By faith alone".

Many man made doctrines have been added to the Bible.
Some religions even falsely claim they had been around during the origins of Christianity. BUT researchers would agree...they did not.

Only the Catholic Church held councils...
And records of Popes exist even since then.

Sorry...but the first church was Catholic. There is no other religion of christianity that existed prior.

The church recognizes 'INvincible ignorance' from the Reformation...but if you trace any religion of christians, you will in fact trace them back to a man...and not Christ, with exception of Catholicsm.

Patrish is correct about the Catholic Church being the one true Church. The original. Jesus Himself said, ..."upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Notice, He didn't say, I will built (start) a multitude, or even two...but my (singular) Church. There is no other Church that can lay the claim to the historicity that the Catholic Church does, proving to the world that she goes all the way back to the days of the apostles.
Moreover, we have been warned, have we not? , that in the last days, not the first days, when the Catholic Church was the only Church in existence, but the last days, false prophets will come into the flock and deceive many? Does not our Lord warn us even now when He tells us in the Scriprues that "many will come in my name and say, 'lo he is there'...believe it not"? Yes, we have our warning to beware of the false religions, and we will do well to search the historical records to see which one can lay claim to the historical originality found only in the Roman Catholic Church.
It can be demonstrated from the Bible, that "there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church." All other religions may give you warm feelings , and console your guilty conscience, protestant to Zin...but there is only one that can retrieve you from the grip of the evil one...that is what Jesus came to do, and He did it well in the form of the organization He had named the Roman Catholic Church. Standing "O" to Patrish. You get an "A".

Thank you null. I usually do not get anyone to receive what I write.

Kudos to you for not tearing me up.

Not according to the historians. Here's the strange part. The symbols in the catacombs, the Catholic church can't say for sure what they are? Now, if they were a part of the original church, you think they would know that.

You seem to know a lot about Caesers underwear but you don't seem to know about church history.

I know what Jesus said about Peter, maybe his church has already been taken and you've been left behind. It would make since, since I don't believe that members of the true church would support the Iraq war.

They say that God will not give you a burden to great to bear?
That He gives a Way for all to follow? But you have to put aside your own willfullness (waywardness) to find it. when you seek GOD's Will then you will find GOD's Way.

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Adopted people and their ways. You are adopted by Indians? Kewl.
Is that like asking if you are a Child of GOD?

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Do they keep Thy Commandments?

Way of the 'FlamingBush'
'Thou shall not commit murder' just as 'thou shall not commit adultery'?
So that 'sexual acts with spouse' is a 'special circumstance' justified by the 'marital relationship';
Then 'special circumstances' exist which justifies killing another human being?

quote: Trick Question so respond accordingly

One church . . , still confusings material or the physical with the spiritual?
First Church was where, in what location or is what?
Bible speaks of the Church at Jerusulim, does not revelation in fact name several chuches or the church at such locals, just as Jesus of Nazarrenth (sp) was (is) the start of the church?
Yo OkCity, I'm still trying to figure out how taking life is a Holy Act? Where did people get these ideas into their heads (mindset)?
Heard on the news about the Pope. They were saying He had recieved some prayer or blessing? Guess they meant the last rites.

I still believe that the one true church was taken up like the Jehova Witnesses do, accept unlike them, I believe it was much earlier. I don't what that means for us now, I should study the Jehova Witnesses to see where they put us now and maybe follow their train of thought on this.

I'm curious to see what directIon the Catholic Church will make with a new pope. John Paul made a lot of changes for the better. Before him church mass was in Latin, he was a good man. Gorbachez my hero said a lot of nice things about him. As I stated in my blog, he was against the war before it even started unlike his protestant brethren, I believe he was closer go God then they are. It is good to hear he went home. He was old and tired and worked and deserved to rest and earned it.

Whether the language used is Latin or English, one message is still the same: reproduce whether or not you are in a position to feed, clothe, care for, or educate your offspring. Furthermore, if you should choose to use birth control or abort a pregnancy, you can look forward to being considered a sinner and feeling guilty for the rest of your life.

By the way, why is the title of this thread Catholics vs Christians? Catholics vs Protestants I could understand, but Catholics ARE Christians. Forgive me if this has already been addressed.

Number one...Okcity, you are very stuck on judging others...and this war stance you have.
The war ended, and the only actions are suicide bombers...and insurgents attacking civilians.

JW's are so Anti~Christ...please do NOT get me started.

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Not according to the historians. Here's the strange part. The symbols in the catacombs, the Catholic church can't say for sure what they are? Now, if they were a part of the original church, you think they would know that.

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http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03417b.htm
No clue where ya get your info...but they are the ones who have the most accuracy of interpretations. Because it was tradition that holds them to unending original practice.
MOST religions go on 'the English' interpretations...SUCH AS JW's.
Which is another issue.
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One church . . , still confusings material or the physical with the spiritual?
First Church was where, in what location or is what?

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The original church was in the middle east, however due to the crusades, and Muhammad followers, they were wiped out.
O gasp..choke choke..the crusades were because the peace loving muslims extremists? attacked and killed many many early christians. COULD history be repeating itself?
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Never mind...you probably think these 'Pick up the sword' and behead the infidels, and ambush them, and befriend neither Jew nor Christian....mongers can do no wrong.

Anyway....

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I still believe that the one true church was taken up like the Jehova Witnesses do, accept unlike them, I believe it was much earlier.

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HOW does this even make sense?? It is beyond illogical.
Christ died for ppl's salvation so all could be saved thru His act and His words and life he left with His witnesses. Apostles they are called..... why in the world would he suck it up into the air??

Incidently...the NEW JERUSALEM they 'take literally' in Revelation of all places, is not about a new town..but a renewed Spirit for God.
AND we can equate this metaphorically when Christ said He would rebuild the temple. {His body}..in three days.

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you can look forward to being considered a sinner and feeling guilty for the rest of your life.

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ALL are sinners, but it takes guilt to be mindful of our sins. Without guilt, we are plaqued with sin we dismiss. How can we then seek forgiveness and 'profess' with a heart we are sorry for sinning..IF we do not feel the sins?

The world today refuses to believe they have sin... which makes it pretty scary.
No conscience, no holding back.

Of course, that is not 'what is written.'
Does it describe the intent of the commandment?

What of the Law of GOD?
Cain rose up against Able & slew him. (Genesis 4:8 KJV)
Yet GOD Responds by cursing him to toil vainly at his vocation (v.2) & to become a fugitive / vagabond.

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{ Footnote: Nelson King James Study Bible}
Doctrinal Footnote Gen. 4:10 'Thy brother's blood' . . . blood is plural in Hebrew & may refer to 'his seeds' haven been cut off and cry out for vengeance.

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What of the Laws of Man?
Thus, he has committed murder or he was provoked, manslaughter?

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Teaching of the Spirit:
To find GOD'S WAY, seek GOD'S WILL.
That is where THE WAY abides. .

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The hard part is to separate what is willfulness and what is God's Will

How does Jesus deal with such situations?

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John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

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Talk about being upon the horns of dilemma! After all, Mary had faced such accusations too?

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John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them,
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

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The Law calls for her to be stoned then how would the commandment not to kill apply?

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John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her,
Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

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One might say her sin had been forgiven but then forgiving sins are a priestly duty (John the Baptist) in Judaism?
Jesus speaks of His betrayer

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Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
22:21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
22:22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

Luke 22:23 And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
22:24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger;
and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

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Righteous Father, GOD of Creation, manifest as man as it was determined is killed upon a cross.
How does this determined by a just & righteous GOD?

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John 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

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God, manifest as man, past through life keeping the Commandments and Laws that GOD had set even unto death. Thus GOD's ordinances are righteous and as Christ, by His Compassion, they are just.

Sorry everyone, I am new to this and was just wondering why so much trying to prove whether Catholics or Christians are right??? I am both a Catholic and a Christian. I know that Christ lived, Died, and was risen. As believers we must remember there are many doors in a hallway that lead to the ultimate room (Christ) and heaven. We should not try to persuade each other to our ideosyncries (sp). But try to spread the Good News to all. So far what I have read we all believe that our Salvation is through Jesus. The biggest thing is Alone or Works. Reality is what Jesus said himself. And that is We are to be servents as he was. I am no scholar so please fill me in. Thanks

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The biggest thing is Alone or Works. Reality is what Jesus said himself. And that is We are to be servents as he was. I am no scholar so please fill me in. Thanks

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'Faith alone' was added by Luther.

According to what ppl are saying about this war...it would also mean then that Charles Manson has no right to be punished...?

Murderers are punished...and there are even quotes by the Apostles about allowing the death sentence...vs killing the Lord's preachers.

Etc etc...

SO the war stand point is moot point.
Saddam murders, he is being punished.

recon, may be you are right as it is rather a mute point.
Afterall to the world you live your life & you die. To them there is nothing more so they get what they expect? For what are we judged? Jesus put forth the twelve to judge Isreal so their God judges them for murder. But for what we charged and by whom? I am neither Roman nor Jew so what has their doing should be put upon me?
But your right it isn't really important aspect, You say so many Hail Marys or proclaim Jesus is Christ and alakozam Your saved! Seriously & not to debate the witness of three.
If Jesus is not (hu) man then judgement becomes God can do that which man can not? Is Jesus, a ringer?
No Jesus was (is) a human being that man can follow God's Commandments? That Jesus is the Light, the Way which Christian follow (seek to emulate).

"SO the war stand point is moot point.
Saddam murders, he is being punished."



I don't recall needing a war to punish Manson, war is not a way of punishing individuals, and Saddam is in captivity, as far as I have heard, so your statement makes little sense to me.