The next stage of Evolution? - Page 2

Theory,

Why assume I'm religious? I haven't been to church in years. Haven't gone most of my life. Religion is about as obsolete to me as evolution. As a matter of fact, I think of them the same.

It is improbable that you would ever sprout wings and fly away and I would denounce anyone who said you were going to do just that. Even though I in my limited finite abilities can't foresee the future or know all the possibilities. Would you be "puzzled" by that as well? It's the same thing to me. I've demonstrated that the likelihood of what you believe is so minuscule that it's virtually impossible. That is to say only because I'm not all knowing can I say for sure it didn't happen however; I do not believe it could, did or will ever happen based on the evidence we have, got it? And you haven't addressed the facts once. You minimized them with your "one in a trillion" catch phrase but never answered for the fact that the universe isn't big or old enough for a protein to arise, not to mention sophisticated life forms with the ability of critical thought. You seem to rely on the fact we're here so it must of beat all the odds. That would be mere faith and no different then if I were to say we're here so God must of put us here. Can you respond to the findings of Professor Morowitz of Yale university?

Explain how inanimate non-consciousnesses can have consorted efforts that "aims to eventually create the master species." as you say and then you might be able to begin to persuade me to "come back to reality." Please explain how time makes lifeless objects come alive. That is your belief is it not? That 'god' is a creative force with no mind? Creating minds?

I haven't hid behind the scriptures nor am I ashamed of what the science community classifies humans. Why would you think that? If anything, you've hidden behind high school text books and teachers without expressing a single thought of your own.

Quote: " We were one cell the sead of the universe we grew over billions of years constantly modifying our DNA hence the reason for so many different variations..."

Can you prove that? Or at least offer up some empirical evidence? Just saying " look at all the varied species" doesn't qualify.

DannyDuberstein,

You're welcome! And I'd be very interested to hear what you find.

Not religious??? Then why is bible in your name and on a previous thread you stated you follow scripture... Perhaps I jumped to conclusions. Please do elaberate as to what it is you beleive. As you must have some pritty good proof if you so strongly denounce evolution.

Quote---If anything, you've hidden behind high school text books and teachers without expressing a single thought of your own.

I resent that comment. As Im allmost compleatly self taught as schools struggle to preech the truth. It's funny as religion is taught in England in every school but atheistism is never uttered upon. (perhaps it is my spelling that made you think this as I'm dyslexic) but so was instien and that didn't stop his apperistions.

You ask for evidence of evolution but the answers are all around us. You want proof of which I can not give you but if you venture to your nearest natural history museum I'm sure all the evidence of evolution will be there for you to research at your lesure.
(I do not back my statements up for varius reasons the main one being I use my iPhone and it's not fesable to post links on here from my handset. Two being that most of my theories are just that, An idea that makes perfect sence without proof to make it a fact)


Quote-----Can you prove that? Or at least offer up some empirical evidence? Just saying " look at all the varied species" doesn't qualify.
Do you actually want me to write all the varied species of animals extinct and living. What a rediculace propposition.
the information is out there I just have no will or need to Attempt to prove anything to you.

Any way back on to the discusstion.

Why do you so blindly miss the facts of evolution. Fogging them off because of the probabilities of it all?
Is your understanding of the world that when a animal goes extinct god replaces it with anouther. Or please could your great mind explain where these dinosaurs came from because the bible seems to miss that all out.

you seem like a very intelligent and lernard human but I feel what you lack is imagination. It's easy to be taught but much harder to create a logical reasoning to a belief.

My beliefs extend far from our reality. As I beleive that our universe is merely a branch on the tree of creation (please research fractual zoom)

you asked how a non consious mind can create consiousness. When I said god lacked consious I ment it has no need to think because all thoughts are questions, god is obselete and thus would have no questions.

I'd like to refer back to my first paragraph when I said until there is substatial proof then I will reside by evolution being the cause of creation. The only proof you have provided me with was a mans calculation that the probabilities of evolution arising are unlikley. Thus I still reside by evolution.
Please do tell of any more evidence that supports your corner.

Evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next. (Helena Curtis & N. Sue Barnes, Biology, 5th ed. [Worth Publishers, 1989] p. 974

Theory,

Religion is an organization made of and comprised of people and though I believe in God, I have no loyalties to any religion or denomination. You see they are two different things and my loyalties are with God. We are all caught in a conundrum of our own making. Due to pride and arrogance we are born separated from God and only when we humble ourselves enough will he speak directly to our hearts. But you haven't left room for that possibility in your view you've created so there's no point in me elaborating any further. Suffice to say you're still in that conundrum and until you can humble yourself to objectively see the error of your reasoning, accepting the fact God is not confined to the "obsolete" box you put him in then you'll always simply repeat that which is believed by those in whom you think alike.

Your spelling and grammar has nothing to do with my assessment of your opinions. I look beyond that because many times people simply don't take the time to correct those things on the net. Sorry to hear of your condition. But really, if you go to a museum as you suggest what will you find? A squirrel that sprouts wings to escape a predator? Perhaps one of the many versions of "Lucy" showing her to have human feet when there were no feet found and it was just a 3 foot chimp with a few other fossils from other species thrown in? That is what causes me to form the opinions I have of your views.

If I could prove God as you ask, I would. But then God calls the shots and he demands repentance for our original doubt and defiance. He demands us to come to faith. Evolution is faith under the guise of science. Faith in God is faith that comes as a result of our humility for getting it wrong. See the difference?

Quote: "I'd like to refer back to my first paragraph when I said until there is substatial proof then I will reside by evolution being the cause of creation."

You dismiss proof that it couldn't happen as per the current models and supply none to support it. Then you say you've created your own theory...let's hear it.

Quote-----Religion is an organization made of and comprised of people and though I believe in God, I have no loyalties to any religion or denomination.

Yet you reside by scripture?
Isn't all religion a personal interpritation of scripture?
And this Is the exact reason why I can not follow scripture for a singal biblical story has been modified and translated hundereds if not thousands of times since the original text.
Each time been slightly changed by the modifiers interpritation.
meaning all scripture is corrupt.

I wish to no longer carry on with this disscustion as we are heading along way from my original question.

It's funny how you attempt to dissmiss evolution for the lack of evidence, but preech a story with a fenominal lack of reality envolvled. For you can claim god saw reason to entertain himself with the on goings of such trivial momments within humanity. How can you see it more likely that a god would make man by hand amongst nature than have a god create everything within an instant and guide the evolution seed to where it needs to grow.
You see your mistake.
This is why religion and science do not mix and why science is prooven real and such biblical propoganda should be destroyed.

If you feel the need to reply please do start you argument with the origins of the dinosaurus or perhaps venture further back than this when arthrapods ruled the world. And explain why the bible never even slightly sugests the the actual age of the world as you bible states 10,000 years but there are millions of extinct fossils to prove this biblical assumption wrong.

You're right, this is no discussion. Perhaps one day you will learn to discus without stereotyped assumptions and couching your words in feeble ways. Maybe even do some critical research so you can articulate the theory you claim to have instead of avoiding extrapolating on your words. While hiding behind cliches. Funny how you can't fathom God may communicate simply because you can't recognize spiritual truths though they are evident all around you. I hope one day you open your mind up and realize that the death of arthropods didn't lead to our existence and there is no "millions of extinct fossils" that say they did. Before it's too late. Sorry my challenge to your premise made you uncomfortable.

Your challenge?
There is no need to fret you have by no means made me feel uncomfortable, just tyred of repeating myself.
You lack the ability to reason and instead resort to jibes and cheap mockery.

I understand I have not given any substatial proof to the existance of evolution, but as of yet you have given none to back your Adam and eve claims either.

Your arragance astounds me, Writting Asif you have rose to some alternate level of existance. Claiming such nonsence as humbleing yourself to "god". You have not even begun to comprihend god hence the reason why you felt it so easy to humble yourself toward it.
No doubt you will reply with wynes of spiritual truths and yet again attempt to belittle me within you realms of grammer.

Quote----stereotyped assumptions?
As to what stereotyped assumtions have I made?
Are you a Christian? Do you follow the bible word for word? Because if not you defi god thus meaning he is not obseleat!!!! This is blasfumy.
God did not make us in "His" likeness this is the arragance of man.


I do see god (reality) and the spirituality of nature.
But you see a much different god.
For my god is obselete and would have no reason to interfear within itself.

When I have time I will create a new thread showing how easy it is to make a fake theory and back it up with truths. Just as your bible has done.

And I will also post my theorys on here ready to be picked apart. Once I have a comp to make sure all evidence is complied together and presented correctly.


Ps I never stated we evolved from athrapods quite the opposite actually we evolved from fish who took to land to excape said athrapods. just curious why the bible would lie about the creation date of the earth?

So mutations occur randomly, and in response to the environment. There are also changes in a given gene pool based on cultural, material and political factors.
Look at African Americans. This is an excellent example. Those who could not survive the rigors of slavery died. Those that could were first bread into the Irish slave stock, and that was further changed by slaves being raped. Then further change occurred as slaves were selectively bread.
Now look at what a sexually desirable person is now, compared to say, the late 1800s. We went from fat girls to twigs. We went from small, fancy men to lumbering fur balls and back to little dudes. This all impacts the gene pool. Evolution due to deliberate sexual selection.
You must also take into account host pathogen co evolution. This is humans evolving in response to diseases, and sometimes other traits effect the immunity to a given disease, such as large nasal apertures or thicker skin.
Also some adaptations effect how a population evolves later on. For instance. Scandinavians have a handful of physical adaptations that let them survive a bit better in cold and dark weather. Since most airborn illnesses aren't huge fans of the cold, this meant they were hit less by sch diseases. IT also meant that certain people who had given characteristics, like more chest hair, did a tiny bit better than their bald brother, thus attracting mates more easily.

Currently we seem to be selecting for a lack of empathy. various reasons on that one, won't get into them.

I think the next stage of human evolution can go two ways. A total lack of morality and empathy, or a massive increase in empathy.

The latter be thought of as akin to going from single celled organisms(individualistic) to a multi cellular organism (societies and corporations in a sense). However our current teams, or multi celled organisms are designed to serve an individual or individuals. This is like a liver existing for the sole purpose of sustaining a small batch of harmful bacteria.

Everyone at wal mart works for the profit of a few.

The basic concept is the same as why a small gang will usually beat out a single badass.

BIRDS FLY, FISH SWIM, MAN THINKS.

We already have our wings dude, now, we just have to learn how to use them.

By the way. I think evolution is a mechanism or method by which life happens, not the ultimate reason behind it.

quote:

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I think it's sad that you feel ashaimed you are a pri mate.

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Theory, that is just one stereotypical assumption on your part. Another is when you claim the Bible states how old the earth is.

My challenge to your premise went as follows. You originally said unless someone can prove otherwise you will believe in evolution and then asked what we thought the next stage would be. I simply implied that unless someone can prove evolution as described i.e. one cell to man over billions of years; there is no point in speculating the next step when there were no previous steps that have been proven as of yet.

And why would you think that I would be ashamed of the classification "primate" anyway?

Must of been yet another assumption lol



In an attempt to move this discussion more on topic And hopefully re kindle this thread.
Ive decided to re post my original question with a few more of my own thoughts.

If up to know evolution has been relent on survival and adaption to the terrain of the inhabited species. Then where does this leave us as Humans. Except for disease we have no direct predator, Our terrain is modified for comfort and practicality.
will evolution adapt to human interference. including all the animals that have to clematis to this human world.

Well humans aren't going to evolve physically anymore because animals evolve to better suit themselves to their environment. We change our environment.

That being said in order to alter our environment and create new things to make us more successful we require better brains. Our minds are evolving.

What I think would be best is genetically engineered humans with larger smarter brains who could then make smarter humans that make smarter humans who make smarter humans at an exponential rate. We could just wait a million years or we could condense all that and achieve that in a matter of 5 generations instead of 100 our so.

The wall in the way of that is religion. I think that if you could get Christians to equate the hindrance of science with the dark aged beliefs of extremist Islam <pretty much the same as the Christians of the dark ages who waged war against science and progress> they would have a stigma built into them about standing in the way of progress......I say fight fire with fire. If they are dumb enough to be manipulated by that <which I'm certain it's doable> then they deserve it.

Wow i can't believe i didn't say anything here!!!!!!

anyway, we have many physical obstacles to overcome. we are no longer bound to the earth so we would need to evolve to suit space better, the first step is to evolve better resistance to gamma rays and other electromagnetic waves that is emitted by the sun.

anyway we do not need to evolve smarter we need access our brains better, we have unimaginable abilities with our minds but it being stopped in its tracks by religion. take for example we can only use around 5% to 10% of our neurons at any time, and that is so bad because of our physical form, we have not yet evolved a better way to cool our brains down, because temperature is what prevents us from using 100% at any time. never mind that i think that the minds abilities is so strong that evolution could be achieved by opening our minds and dropping any form of illusion in the sense of limitations. if we can overcome our thinking that we have limitations then maybe just maybe we can have some kind of quantum evolution where our minds can think over many universes and enhance our abilities to an almost limitless consciousness.

I think that most of our gods over time is based on humans which achieved this ability and had strange and amazing abilities to manipulate the universe in such a way that they become god like.

all amazing abilities today is indirectly made by the mind, take for instance people who has amazing strength, they trained there bodies by making there mind believe they can achieve it and so in the end it is not the weights or any training that made them so strong it was there ability to convince themselves they can be strong beyond normal humans.

but maybe i am putting to much faith into humans abilities and it is likely i will be disappointed.

what is your thoughts?

Hey James you should check this out...goes with your theory of "gods" being evolved humans http://www.rosicrucian.org/home.html.

They follow Jesus' words but differ in their beliefs as to what he was. They believe he was an ascended human and not the product of immaculate conception fathered by God himself.

It's a pretty cool theory and actually makes more sense than Christianity. Although It all seems like mythological parables.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about evolution. It is a complex biosphere that evolves and produces different species. Within the evolving biosphere, adaptation & mutation occur within species.

Total or partial extinctions and geographic separations are an intimate part of how new species develop.

The probability argument is mute because if you follow things backward through time to the beginning of life, each moment produced the next moment therfore the probability of what exists is 100%. The creation of life is not considered to be evolution.

The question of "the next step" depends not just on changes within our genes but how they affect survival of those changes.

Worldwide holocaust in some form, would be one way the survival factors could become apparent in species change. Another possibility could be isolation of different groups through space exploration...after long periods of separation, the descendants of different groups could become different species due to differing adaptation pathways.

Barring those types of events, the human species will continue becoming more homogeneous.

Will we become more alike, more cooperative, more communicative.