What is the root cause of atheist's disbelief and are they qualified to debate theism? - Page 3

How does one describe emotion to another? Words cannot. How would you describe colour to a blind man?

I apologize; it appears I have strayed from the topic of discussion in this forum. Back to the topic
Alimar said:

quote:

---

I would qualify only few people to be actually qualified to debate theism. But that depends on where you put the bar as qualified. We had an Idiot for a president for eight years so I would say many people don't put the bar of qualification very high. So if Bush Jr is considered qualified to run what was the most dominating country in most categories then anybody is considered qualified to debate theism

---

.
Decius Said:

quote:

---

You saying my statements contradict the theology does not make it so. You have to present those arguments.
Do you deny the existence of original sin?
I hope not.
Do you deny that all sinners go to hell?
I hope not.
Do you deny that salvation is only achieved through God's grace and that you have no control over whether this definitely happens?
I hope not.
All three of these statements support my analogy. So, address the analogy. You have no choice in the matter of original sin - you are a born sinner.
Or is your suggestion that you do not fear death? That you are free of that fear?
Or do you believe that you have done so righteous in your life that damnation is so unlikely, that you need not attach yourself to life - that heaven awaits, and since this is true, your survival is nearly guaranteed.
In which case, you certainly do fear your survival, you just believe you've found a way to ensure it through Christ.
I believe you do not fear damnation because you believe it is unlikely. If you believed damnation was likely, I sincerely believe you'd be afraid of a whole lot more. A confidence in the existance of heaven and your ticket into it can "free" you to do a lot of things, and be hopeful in a lot of situations.

---

Decius,
That is true, because I say it does not make it so.
Quid pro quo, if you answer my questions posed previously, I can answer yours. You are using use theist beliefs, specifically Christian in your argument and I was trying to determine parameters for an answer that speaks to scope. For example, it would be meaningless and disrespectful for me to quote scripture to someone without any knowledge of scripture. Question 3 and 4 are conditional upon answers to 1 and 2. I repeat the setup and the questions again:
I am very familiar with the Christian theology among others and your arguments contradict my understanding.
1) What is your background of knowledge in theology?
2) Is your argument based on reason, research or observation?
3) If you are in a position of knowing (research), what would explain this contradiction?
4) Do we interpret the same theology differently assuming we have acquired the same knowledge?
If you find these questions unfair, I will withdraw them, though I can only answer your questions knowing the parameters, whereby you would provide them.

Decius,
Because I choose not to defend my emotions to you that apparently makes me aggressive as well. No aggression was intended. My comments were sincere, if you find me insincere, I cannot fault nor defend. I have no malice for you Decius and yes you have my respect. If I have not gained your respect please, feel free to dismiss me as a 'Christian' idiot and I have failed.
I can never escape knowledge and thirst for it, so I search ecumenically. I do not understand you any more than when we started this conversation, so I have also failed in that capacity. I abhor aggression in all forms; I do not believe in war, but I believe in soldiers. I am spending the remainder of my day at a memorial service; I encourage all to remember those soldiers that lost their lives for our freedom. Their sacrifice allows us to speak as freely as we do.
'Lest we forget'

Decius,

I too apologize and forgive.

Aww bonding moment. So let's sum up. Brother Bob, being the author of this post would you say that Atheists/ Agnostics are qualified to debate theism?
As for pinpointing the root cause of one's disbelief would it be fair to state that thus far we have not come to a clear identifier for the cause?

Watching the news, schooling aid was collected and donated via military members to children in the midle east.

Yet the Arab spokesman, a middle eastern General, quote, "In the name of god, we are able to supply these children with schooling materials."

You can understand how upset we were.

quote:

---

Aww bonding moment.

---

Yeah it was sweet (oops, I puked a litlle)

quote:

---

So let's sum up. Brother Bob, being the author of this post would you say that Atheists/ Agnostics are qualified to debate theism?

---

Of course everyone it entitled to have an opinion, whether they are informed or not. I'm not sure do fear me or loathe me.

quote:

---

As for pinpointing the root cause of one's disbelief would it be fair to state that thus far we have not come to a clear identifier for the cause?

---

no, but doubt, fear, lack of proof, logic, reason, religion is brainwashing, pseudo science, cynicsm, theology faulted for the downfall of mankind pretty much sums it up in similar dialogues over the last 20 to 25 years.

quote:

---

So many people in this world, just like you, pretend to be peace-loving, yet subscribe to and cling to beliefs that are so utterly harmful and destructive to the people around you.

Acting passive is just as mechanical a coping process as aggression is - passiveness is just as abhorrent as aggressiveness.

And that will be it.

Footnote:

"gave their lives for our freedom"

So offensive, not even mockable

---

Ooooh, I am somewhat underwhelmed by another salvo from the muffin cannon.
Well, I'm off to do my brainwashing, it does so dry out my hands.

Response to Brother Bob,
I don't fear or loath you. I have had to deal with many religious followers the majority of my life now. You have been just another one but glad we could discuss and review on a forum rather than trying to play word games. The people I fear are the paranoid fools who believe the only way to spread gods word is with fear and irrational thinking.
The lack of truth and knowledge is agreeable I believe by most parties to be a major cause of problems in the world. From what I understand, teaching someone about mathematics, social sciences, literature, craft skills and science is far outweighs the teaching of religion in general. Society its self will teach us not to kill or steal outright. I would add lie, cheat and add social corruption but nothing really seems to stop these.
I don't mind people learning about a religion or way of life however I don't want them to miss the important part, like working with society, providing food for their family and developing others. Growing up in the Christian environment, as a child I thought it was weird that people would dress up so nice every Sunday to go to a room with others and agree on something and say they care about the poor and each other. An entire day wasted when they could have organized a charity, helped someone in need, clean up the neighborhood ect.
Thoughts?

My biggest fear of any kind of religion is when everyone follows suit, is the raising the standard occurrence. This is where when everyone is in agreement, debate and war is waged over the minutest of details. If those are settled, then the finer print still is looked and sought to comply with.

Example: A Christian goes to church and reads the good word a couple times a week. Once everyone is now a full Christian that's not enough. Did you memorize every verse? Do you say bless you every time? Prayer is said in thanks for every blessing right?
Right?

Decius

lol I just got done telling everyone on my porch that Brother Bob started chimping out after he had no where to run.

Direct questions call for direct answers, when someone chooses not to answer directly they are hiding something. Pressure is a good way to force out what they are hiding.

quote:

---

quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
dismiss me as a 'Christian' idiot and I have failed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------



So many people in this world, just like you, pretend to be peace-loving, yet subscribe to and cling to beliefs that are so utterly harmful and destructive to the people around you.

Acting passive is just as mechanical a coping process as aggression is - passiveness is just as abhorrent as aggressiveness.

And that will be it.

Footnote:

"gave their lives for our freedom"

So offensive, not even mockable.

---

To dismiss me because I have a Christian label, I said I abhor aggression, but I do employ it, but when it is necessary. I said I don't beleive in war (for the sake of aggression or conquest). My father, step father, father in law and 2 grandfathers were in the military. I was a military cadet. I honour them and all soldiers. Are you telling me you don't remember and honour the soldiers that died, that are dying? Are you saying you don't observe Vererans Day?
Who said passive, if you deal drugs to kids, abuse kids, beat your wife, threaten the innocent, or are a human trafficker. I am on your doorstep.
I found your comments to utterly misguided, so ignorant and desrepectful on a day we honour the dead. You can 'dis me all you like, but leave veterans and soldiers out of it.

quote:

---

lol I just got done telling everyone on my porch that Brother Bob started chimping out after he had no where to run.

Direct questions call for direct answers, when someone chooses not to answer directly they are hiding something. Pressure is a good way to force out what they are hiding.

---

Dude, you should really get out more, if I chap your ass that badly.
Ignorant and misguided questions get the consideration they deserve.

quote:

---

My biggest fear of any kind of religion is when everyone follows suit, is the raising the standard occurrence. This is where when everyone is in agreement, debate and war is waged over the minutest of details. If those are settled, then the finer print still is looked and sought to comply with.

Example: A Christian goes to church and reads the good word a couple times a week. Once everyone is now a full Christian that's not enough.

---

quote:

---

Did you memorize every verse?

---

No, why would I memorize?
I read the bible, I also read articles, I read medical journals, books on Youth ADD, teen suicide prevention, bullying, human trafficking, drug treatment, Keats, Robert Frost, Kirt Vonnegut for knowledge and enjoyment.

quote:

---

Do you say bless you every time? You really don't know much about Christians do you Prayer is said in thanks for every blessing right?
Right?

---

You really don't know much about Christians do you, I have not once quoted scripture to you because you have not asked. If it was in your heart to ask then ask.

quote:

---

Response to Brother Bob,
I don't fear or loath you. I have had to deal with many religious followers the majority of my life now. You have been just another one but glad we could discuss and review on a forum rather than trying to play word games. The people I fear are the paranoid fools who believe the only way to spread gods word is with fear and irrational thinking.
The lack of truth and knowledge is agreeable I believe by most parties to be a major cause of problems in the world. From what I understand, teaching someone about mathematics, social sciences, literature, craft skills and science is far outweighs the teaching of religion in general. Society its self will teach us not to kill or steal outright. I would add lie, cheat and add social corruption but nothing really seems to stop these.
I don't mind people learning about a religion or way of life however I don't want them to miss the important part, like working with society, providing food for their family and developing others. Growing up in the Christian environment, as a child I thought it was weird that people would dress up so nice every Sunday to go to a room with others and agree on something and say they care about the poor and each other. An entire day wasted when they could have organized a charity, helped someone in need, clean up the neighborhood ect.
Thoughts?

---

I agree, it is a total waste of time to talk about caring for people, sincerity is in action. I am working in a homeless shelter on Saturday and one Saturday every month. I visit elderly people who have no one else. I am volunteering to care for a teen with Asberger's Syndrome. Every wednesday I mentor teens. I am an anti gang and a youth justice advocate. I attend rallys and community forums. I have a meeting later this month to speak with the city recreation, social services and public school to create an program to stop bullying, reduce teen suicide, help with homework, literacy, ADD and LD, recreation, teen drug addictions.