Innocence.

As chris and i started a new topic within that thread i thought i would paste here the previous conversation and then carry on.



her

Children.

I notice how when they walk into the classroom they smile so widely, and are actually pleased to see me, their arabic teacher. And i feel loved when rafay puts his hand in mine, or when omar tries to hug me from the back, they are only 4, and then when their mothers come they give the same smile and leave, and what i realised is that when they come into to the classroom i take over caregiver role, and that it is only children who can be so loving, for if you find such an adult, give them my number. They are so clean, so pure, so beautiful, so untouched. and i wish nothing bad touches them in their lives but whats the point of hoping for the impossible, that was me, and that was you and now look at us. We know the truth, well as much as we do.

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3:48:19 pm - April 19, 2008
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449 Posts / 25M
: 20yrs :


ChrisD

So true her. I just hope it's possible to revert back to that state of innocence and freedom of inhibitions.


4:50:57 pm - April 19, 2008
"You gotta walk that lonesome valley. You gotta walk it for yourself."



246 Posts / 38M
: 18yrs :

her

Yet there is a sense of pleasure in breaking through the innocence and seeing the world as it is, even if its quite ugly and grey. I dont think we will ever be able to revert to innocence, not once you experience pain, and when you realise that the pain was intentionally inflicted, there's no going back.




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6:05:26 pm - April 19, 2008
"personal quote.. VOTE FOR ME!"

449 Posts / 25M
: 20yrs :

ChrisD

Jesus thought it was possible.


8:00:42 pm - April 19, 2008
"You gotta walk that lonesome valley. You gotta walk it for yourself."


246 Posts / 38M
: 18yrs :

her

You have to look at how we lose our innocence, its when we learn, gain information, realise the world isnt rosey, when we learnt some of its many realities, so unless we lose our memories and tread an existance of delusion or childish ignorance and hope you will never be innocent. And once you start to envy, lust, hate and enrage others.. how can you be innocent? Perhaps, maybe there is more to it.




449 Posts / 25M
: 20yrs :



ChrisD




I don't think losing innocence has to do with how much we learn or experience. To be child-like means to give your love away freely. It means to allow your emotions to fully express themselves without fear. It means to be completely honest. It means to be completely uninhibited. It means to be vulnerable. Aren't those attributes all within our power to achieve?

Ah, well then it comes down to how we define innocence and then of course whether it can be achieved or not will be different.

I started with my post about children and it was love i was thinking about, their ability to send so much love, because they feel so much love. In my opinion it is because they do not understand many evils, and are innocent of that. Perhaps it is within our attributes to do so but i doubt it because how many people will be aware of others faults and intentions, of how much corruption is in the world, and then be able to freely love people. I havent met a person like that and i never will be such. Children dont know about the cruelties of life, though some do and it shows. These children loose some of their innocence.
or purity, or whatever you want to call it.

I do believe strongly that the purity children possess, i mean really young children, and not all children, is because they have lack of experience and understanding of the world. This knowledge has not made them hard yet because they dont know, or it has not taught them the defence mechanisms adults use to not get hurt which is interpreted as something negative, when in fact its knowing something bad will happen because of experience and then doing what they can to get away from it.

And then i went on to say that we cannot be innocent because we lust, hate, enrage others.. what did i mean by this? well innocence is also a lack of guilt , and what im getting at is that adults are more destructive than children, children get jealouse, and they hate, and they feel such feelings but their actions arent as destructive. If they are, tell me how.

If being child like is giving love away freely than children do it because they have lack of experience, so i will state again. Adults dont do it because they know that it makes them vulnerable and have learnt from their mistakes. I am referring to deep serious love here, yes chris we do have the ability to show some kind of love to people, even if its not deep, some compassion. Though we can argue over whether all people deserve compassion in all situations of all times.

To be completely honest, children untill a certain age never lie, the kids in my arabic dont lie, if i say oh look i pierced my nose, does it look nice.. nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.....

lol..

I dont know if complete honesty works in the adult world, i think sometimes the truth doesnt need to be out in the open, sometimes you learn as an adult that you dont need to tell the truth in a certain situation, but when we lie and deceieve each other for our personal interest then of course its wrong but very smart. And to be ,vulnerable. we spent our childhoods being that way, think about it, what is good in it? why should we seek to be that way?

And lastly no i dont think they can be achieved compltely, nor should they be because adults are not children and are the way they are because of the truth they know, that the world is vicious, its full of deceit, and if we are thinking of a world of honest, innocent, kind, all loving beings, then we most certainly are not talking about human beings.

I would like to be child like as a child again, carefree, but not as an adult, those characteristics would have me ripped to pieces and made me unsuccessful in this self loving world.

What do you think?

I guess I would have to wonder what you mean exactly by "their ability to send so much love, because they feel so much love." Until that is clarified somewhat I guess I'll stick to what I experience. But in my opinion vulnerability in loving is as much a part of life as anything. I think that too often adults try to shield themselves from the pain and heartache that complete vulnerability in love can pose. We keep people at a distance, even if we don't realize it, and this affects how much we can be hurt by a spurned lover. Yet the problem is that in shielding ourselves from the pain we shut ourselves from much of the pleasure that being completely in love can present. The deeper the rut that sorrow cuts into our hearts the more happiness we can hold. This is just the way it is with life and many adults I think prefer less happiness if it means less pain. I don't know if this is exactly what you were talking about so I'm interested in your response.
Peace

I remember one class my acting teacher said "we're most engaged when we're most vulnerable." I believe that's true. By not being vulnerable we're missing all kinds of moments. Moments of truth, of learning, of feeling. I want to be more vulnerable. When I am I feel more. I feel freer. It's like the equivalent of being naked for your mind.

It feels so GOOD when a soft wind blows in these moments! I see why it's so scary to be vulnerable though... This world is so cold. We put up shields and barriers for warmth. There's a beautiful tragedy in it.

Humans are, at their core, habitual creatures. That's why it's so deadly to hide ourselves away. It becomes a ritual, a necessity. It's not so easy to just turn it on and off after a while. To step outside of that circle you've drawn around yourself gets harder and harder. After some time you forget what it was even like before and the circle becomes your entire world.

I long to be bold and unforgiving about myself but the coward inside me still has control. He is losing ground though! One day I'll make that jump... the last jump of this lonely chapter of my life. I don't know what's beyond it but each step I take in it's direction awards me with the power and confidence to continue.

Vulnerability could be what we call innocence... I'm not entirely sure.