Conservative Today VS Liberal Today - Page 2

im an avid anarchist, i believe that ALL political parties are wrong and rooted in lies and evil. Once individuality is taken away in secular events there is evil. i find that people projecting control onto you causes a negative reaction. whether your conservative or liberal, your all working for the same common goal. Same shit, different asshole... ill leave you with one final thought- Brothels are built with stones of the Lord, prisons built with the stones of the Law. think about it. and apply some of newtons laws on it (for every force there is a equal and opposite force.)

police are armed and dangerous.

OK... What you did was took a small example and tried to use an irrelivant idea to prove a wrong point, and when I called you on it you siad I dont know. I get annoyed because this was my honest attempt at lookng at it from both sides and you and everyone else on this site failed me miserably.

You see, I tried to understand you and you didnt make any sense. You said that republicans are keeping the rich richer because rich people who put money in the stock market make more than poor people.... LIKE THE GOD DAMN REPUBLICANS CREATED THE FUCKING STOCK MARKET????

Shut the fuck up you stupid lib troll. You took something I said and twisted it so that you came out on top of this verbal masturbation contest that you adn all your loser friends have made america into. YOU took no time to think that you may be wrong as to were I created this thread in an attempt to learn.

OK... What you did was took a small example and tried to use an irrelivant idea to prove a wrong point, and when I called you on it you siad I dont know. I get annoyed because this was my honest attempt at lookng at it from both sides and you and everyone else on this site failed me miserably.

You see, I tried to understand you and you didnt make any sense. You said that republicans are keeping the rich richer because rich people who put money in the stock market make more than poor people.... LIKE THE GOD DAMN REPUBLICANS CREATED THE FUCKING STOCK MARKET????

Shut the fuck up you stupid lib troll. You took something I said and twisted it so that you came out on top of this verbal masturbation contest that you adn all your loser friends have made america into. YOU took no time to think that you may be wrong as to were I created this thread in an attempt to learn.

Doom- read the god damn title and shut the fuck up.

whoa now. i read the goddamn title and i stated my opinion on the matter. you chill out! lets show some maturity and respect here. no need to tell people what to do in such a manner as that. thats horribly disrespectful. this is happening too often on this forum.

and allimar- you are completely right man! excellent observation. After your post, he persisted to attack instead of listen and understand, and i (an undeserving victim..lol) received some ambient hostility. "the egotistical mind, when confronted with something it does not understand, becomes hostile"

awakendwraith, just because you created this thread, doesnt make it just for you. this thread is for ALL of us to learn and understand on, not to satisfy your need for explanation.

hmm. glad we have that settled. It wasnt my intention to manipulate your wording, it was just my understanding of what you ment.

Not sure why you would call me a liberal. I have been wrong many times in the past and intend to learn and improve my opinion based on history and facts.

In politics, wether democrat or repbulican, you have to beat each other at at each others game. Wether that would be raising funds for political campains, kissing babies, or just selling garbage to people who want to hear about a particulare view or opinion.

Both sides play a vital role in moving our country forward. We need to use the positive traits of boths sides and balance ourselves so we remain adaptible and capible to handle whatever comes to us in the future.

If I may let me try to clarify.

Conservative point of view is to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. Examples of a more extreme conservative is Monarchy, fascism, Theocracy and Anarchy. The stock market isn't a bad thing, it has a huge amount of power and gives countries more control over the economy.

Also, you need to be able to allocate large sums of wealth, control and resources in order to achieve great things. If we were to evenly distribute wealth to everyone then progress would slow down. Progress and technology should be more similar to dropping a rock in a pond. Starts off heavy in a concentrated area and spreads out when it can. The larger the rock, the greater the impact on everyone (as the pond would rise a bit)

Doom 123
I agree with you that authority should remain in check, but if we don't organize ourselves and move to a common goal we might as well finish ourselves off as a species as eventually either from our own destructive nature, asteroid, our other larger then us impacting occurrences.
Not all politicians are evil, the path to becoming powerful appears to be corrupt, but in general people may start off with the best intentions (yes I know the rhetoric for it ) Police officers are trying to keep order and Peace. But you always hear the small portion that perform bad deeds. These individuals are Lawful (Good, evil or neutral isn't really relevant it seems)

Growing up I played a great deal of Dungeons and Dragons. Reading about our enemies (orcs) they were always Chaotic Evil and yet, always had a society, rulers and the like. After we had all but wiped out a tribe, several made a last ditch effort to save there young. From there I questioned what we were doing for anyone who is Evil will not risk saving the helpless.
Point I'm trying to make is, at least to me, Good people fight against Good people all the time. Even though we depict each other as Evil due to our own upbringing. If two societies prosper differently, who is wrong?

Doom- This is a thread about consertive view points and how they differ to liberal view points. If you are anarchist fine, but you views do not belong in this thread because you openly stated that you believe all things polotical are evil and the same. this is about the clear and obvious difference you refuse to acknowledge and the fact that you found it nececary to verbaly masturbate in a thread I created in an attempt to learn and educate clearly shows YOUR disrespect towards me.


Allimar- your brawl character sucks. Im also at work right now so i dont have time to respond

Brawl? You mean Wolf? I don't know man, he has been really successful for me thus far. But what does this have to do with the forum?

As for Dooms posts I don't see how his comments are against the thread. Actually the 3rd party adds a great deal too it if I may say so. The goal here is to learn and figure out how politics work.

Were not trying to disrespect you, simply open doors and debate about what exactly is a democrat and republican (and anarchists) and clarify questions people have about them.
Because of current events the dems and reps seem to blurr together because both sides are trying to play... both sides.

Im curious about why you haven't commented on my long speal regarding the conservative/ liberal chart I posted earlier. I tried to make it clear as I can as to where the two parties stand, or should stand.

Please read the whole thing before you reply.


Ok, what Im going to do is qoute something that you say and say something about it. It may seem like an attack and may actually be one but it is for the sake of learning so dont get mad. Then, you qoute me, specifically, and use specific ideas to defend yourself or attack me.

"Look for the short term,"

Im not sure what you mean by this. If by look for the short term you mean continue the science on global warming to come up with a real answer, or stay in the Iraq war to insure teh survival of its people the seeds of democracy, Id have to disagree. I dont think those things are short term at all.

"Change the situation to fit them"
"Prefers the natural state"

Kinda contradictory.

"Favor individual wealth"

If by favor induvidual wealth you mean, if you earn something it should be yours and if you dont earn somethign you dont deserve it, then I would have to disagree with you again. I wouldnt call that favoring individual wealth I would call it capitolism.

"Fight rather then talk (war"

Give me one example of this.

"Powerful and unstoppable government"

The CONSERVATIVE view point on this is that they want the government as small and out of the way as possible. A CONSERVATIVE, not republican, doesnt like it when the government gets in the way of citecins. ( i cant fucking spell at all) It is a well known fact, (listen to rush linbaugh or glenn beck's talk show's one day and youll know what i mean) that conservatives do not like it when goverment passes a new law or a new policy or any treaties of any kind. If you dont know who Glenn Beck or Rush Linebaugh are, they are the two figureheads of mainstream conservatism.

"One state/ One country"

Im sorry but youre just wrong about this. The republicans are marjorly in the south, or southern style of people. In the civil war the south wanted states to have their own goverments and were against the union. That would mean that souther people, republicans, were agaisnt a "United States" and desired more of a governemtn process that was based more on state legislation. The reason why they wante dthis is because if you didnt like a particular state, you could move out of it and to a new one while still being an american. now, i am in no way condoning the souths behavior in the civil war, I am only explaining to you how you are wrong.

"Low taxes, manage your own wealth how you see fit (need for insurance, ect"

Dead on. One hundred percent correct.

"Exploit, but don't get caught, do as you see fit "

Im not sure what you even mean by this. If you are talking about poloticians then yes, MOST POLOTICIANS INCLUDING HILARY AND OBAMA AND BUSH AND MCCAIN ARE DIRT BAGS.

"Look for the long term"

If by look for long term you mean establish standardized nation wide health and and eventually ruin the medical buisness, the one that takes 8 years of really hard schooling and is incredibly expensive to pay for and in NO WAY AT ALL a right given to you in the constitution, then I would have to disagree with you. I dont call that long term. I call it oblivious and arrogant.

"Keep the government in check"

Again, you're are just wrong about this one. In one of hilary's speaches you says, and I qoute, "I'm goin gto garnish the profits of big industries to pay for nationalized health care." This is out of contol government on so mainy levels its ridiculous. Here are a few.
One- Who the fuck are you hilary clinton to tell me that you are going to take money out of MY buisnesses profits? The company that I work for is not going to let that happen you stupid bitch. Do you know what thats going to do? GET ME FUCKING LAID OFF!

My bad, Dems look for long term dont they....

Two- My boss, the florida branch managor of an engine selling componay that sells about 10 million dollars a year, decideds not to pay for health care. He makes about 60 thousand dollars a year, with out his spouse, who he is not married to, making her own 45 thousand a year, would qaulify for universal health care, and my taxes would go up because of it. Keep in control? You're fucking kidding me.

"United States/ United Countries"

Again, I have no idea what this means.

"High taxes, you spend money on food, luxury, entertainment like items (Socialistic) "

Correct. They dont believe taht people deserve the money they make and they dont believe that they are capable of taking care of themselves. If you want to be a child your whole life, vote dem.

"Don't exploit, slows things down and is corrupt, government money should be govern spending"

Again I dont know what you mean.

"Advance and change for better."

Global warming comes to mind here. Guess what, its not real. THe polar bears have gone up 500 percent in existence and tehre is more ice on the polar caps now then ever before. For the better? No, for the taxes is more like it.

"Let your emotions and instincts guide you"

If you knew anything about conservatives, which im sure you do, you would know that they are generally christian. Christians believe that you are born into sin and must opress those sinful urges and rise above that natrual sinful state. If you take a look at that last statement and compare to your qoute you would see that you are again, just wrong.

"Prefers the natural state"

Again, look at teh christian aspect of this.

"Advance slowly, keep traditional values, even if it's not as efficient"

Incondescent light bulbs come to mind here. Flurecent light bulbs suck. I will NEVER own those because when my fiance comes home and she wants to see if theres a burgalar in the house late at night, i want the fucking light to come on fast. Now, something else that comese to mind is hybrid cars and the use of new fuel and digging on our own land for oil. These are all new advances in technology that REAL CONSERVATIVES are for. You are probably going to bring up ethenol here. Well, ethenol sucks because its raising the price of corn so much that we have to ship it in for the first time ever. Along with bread. And because they cant feed the cows because corn and wheat are so damn expensive, beef is going up in price. Guess what, ethanol isnt effeicient. Its sucks. Even if it was cheap to manufacture it only raises gas mileage like a few miles per gallon. But its not cheap, its so expensive its causing our economy to suck even more than it already does.

"Entertainment is the reason for living "

Again, look at the christian aspect of it.


Id also like a reply to this.

"LIKE THE GOD DAMN REPUBLICANS CREATED THE FUCKING STOCK MARKET???"

I hope that wasnt too offensive and I really hope to get something good in return. Remeber, I hope to be proven wrong here, but youre really going to have to give me good evidence and solid logic to do it.

I just kind of assumed your char was olimar.

it doesn't say that in the thread title. it says conservative today VS liberal today. i stated my opinion on both parties. is that too difficult to understand?

awakenedwraith- for the unified states/countries i think what allimar means is that the liberals support state democracy more than federal. now this may be different from the civil war but its the 2000's now, not the 1800's. the reason why i think this is because- in the days of late, the liberals, who are more fervent about their personal independent rights are more concerned when the big brother takes away one of their rights. (ex. the ability to choose one's state of mind... drugs) this makes some upset, thus they believe in giving the state the power to decide for itself what it will allow. (ex. california). this in turn would be turned into keeping the government in check. (im not saying libs are federalists, i just think they tend to lean more to state gov. maybe?)

Replying will take time so I can make sure I answer with my opinion the best way I can.
Quickly though, the United States vs United Country is more for blurring the lines of the States of America.

Each state of the U.S. has the ability to be its own country via landmass alone. All of them are united with an idea and support the larger government however remains its own. This allows for independent rulings of each state to deal with there own situations. (Language, laws ect)

United States is meant as; The States (Countries) of America are united and separate.
United Country is simply a full unification. Though more powerful and probably better organized, a law in one area is identical to the other which may not be a good law for that area due to specific circumstances

Right now we have 3 United States, The U.S.A. E.U. (United States of Europe) and China (United States of Asia). To be fair we could call everyone something else to in order to not sound so self centered, like the American Union and Asian Union.

Doom 123 is right about Liberals and state power. Conservatives prefer independent rulings where as liberals prefer to have one big government.

Wow that was long...

Look short term vs Long term.
Short term is more the now. Lots of money, power and effort can fix a problem now. Having a military is now power, Shooting a criminal on the spot is now power, dealing with issues as they come up is short term. And only dealing with issues that that pose a threat or important.

Pros: It allows you to defend yourself from others, deal with situations on the fly, is quick, and allows you to get things done.
Cons: Expensive

Long term is the future aspect. Organization, careful planning, and a little bit of money over time to fix long haul issues. Hospitals keep people alive, taking that criminal and trying to rehabilitate or change him takes time, trying to figure out future events and prevent problems is long term.
Pros: you eliminate issues before they have a change to become a problem, take time to figure out why something happened and try to avoid it from happening again.
Cons: time consuming; sometimes you deal with false alarms. If successful then you never know if it was worth it. Never have any hard data to support the effort.


'Change the situation to fit them'
'Prefers the natural state'
'Kinda contradictory'

Very true it is. But this is referring to what I call the American Religions term for Republican and a true Conservative.

Favoring individual wealth
Nailed it right on the head.

Powerful I meant as military, should have specified. But you're right, about the viewpoint of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh being the figureheads of conservatives.

One state, one country
You got me here; this should have been reversed for the two side's opinions. Thanks for catching that.
I agree with you as for the south's view on if you don't like the state, move out to another. This only opens doors and frees people to believe what the want with similar people.

Exploit, but don't get caught, do as you see fit
Unfortunately the 3 seem to be so. But it seems we have no choice. I would like to see people write down on there ballet who they want elected, for one election, one time. And see the results.
Now if you're a good politician (meaning you genuinely care) then you'll have to break rules and go against laws in order to get something done sometimes. I was talking to a die hard Republican whom pointed this out. It seems republicans are better at doing this then democrats who seem to enjoy going threw paper work. Times are the ends justify the means. Charlie Wilsons war is a good example of this. There are times rules get in the way and you need to get the job done

Keep the government in check
Again, wrong side, good call.

As for her trying to make the health care system is that she's trying (I'm guessing but who knows) to get health care to be like that of Canada and other Socialist states. This where you basically walk in the hospital and they fix you up. Trying to get medical and hospitals to be more of a government works rather then independent.

Now, how she gets the money, from big industries is rather insane in my opinion. Tax the people, you slow down the economy. Tax business, you slow down growth. But you have to get your money from somewhere.

Social tax view.
I see what you mean by treated like a child, but honestly I want Scientists to be scientists. Last thing I want him worrying about is healthcare, insurance, protection, financial stability ect. Same with doctors, teachers ect.
I prefer specialists, but that's just me. If that's childish well then I think like a child. I just don't like having to bother with petty stuff.

'Don't exploit...'
Mindset of Democrats.

'Advance and change for the better'
Advancing too quickly in technology lessens founding understanding and increases chances for problems to occur. however if we don't advance quick enough we may as a species be left in the history books of space.

'Instinctual' 'prefers the natual state'
This is referring to my opinion of a 'true' conservative. Not the American one. But yes you are very correct in regards to rising above your sinful actions as a Christian.

'Incandescent light bulbs...'
Good observation. Perhaps having both would be the most beneficial; there are times you need to be able to act now.
As for hybrid cars, we should have been dong this decades ago but no one saw the need to step forward. This is where long term thinking should have come into play.
Ethanol does suck. My findings show that Ethanol was chosen over sugar because we as a nation wanted to try and become energy independent. We should be working on our alliances with South American and Central America and get sugar going. Being that we now have made E.coli strands that turn sugar to gas. To me, Sugar is the answer to the fuel problem at the moment. Until we can come up with Anti matter or better employ hydrogen based technologies.

As for the stock market, as I said. It's a good example of a conservative economic system. A liberal government really wouldn't use this as everything would be government effected or run centrally.

Nah, good thing about forums is that you can blow off steam. They reflect your character in how you deal with others. as well as allowing you time to organize thoughts and look at what your doing.

My goal isn't to prove you wrong; I never understood debates as people try to prove each other wrong whether or not they are wrong. My goal here is to organize the thoughts and intellect of others and further understand opinions of one another.