Stoned in love, but not with you.

I'm faced with a difficult decision; something of a crossroads... and I don't think there is anyone in my life that is equipped to advise me on it.

I pose it then, to this virtual abyss. If you have any insight into my situation, I would greatly appreciate input.


I have been seeing a girl, for this question I will call her [Lisa], for over four years. I think that our relationship has lasted as long as it has, in part, because of the lack of pressure. Neither of us wants to live with someone romantically, or marry, until our 30s at the earliest.

She is very attractive, strong, and opinionated. She is 19, turning 20 in December, and I am 21, as of this September. For the past two years, our relationship has steadily declined toward the shallow and boring. In the last six months, we've done little else but watch movies together, and coppulate.

Lisa has very little ambition, and direction in life. This past year, she managed part of a store, accumulated a savings of about five thousand, and quit her job so she could essentially do nothing.

Conversely, I am approaching a master's degree in international conflict management. I want to use my skills and knowledge to do what I can, to help the planet come a little closer to peace.

To this end, I am going to be embarking on a 6 month voyage to Central America at the end of the year, in a study abroad program at my University. For this question, I will refer to the country as [Honduras].

About two weeks ago, Lisa tried to break up with me. She said that she didn't want to 'tie me down' while I was in Honduras. We worked through this, but during the all-night conversation, we began to speak of expansive possibilities after I return. I realized that, regardless of where I go or what I do, we didn't have much longer.

Lisa does not love herself or respect herself, and I realized that a large part of the decline in our relationship was due to this, and due to my not being able to completely love or respect her because of this. I decided that, if it was going to end in the near future anyway, and after all the tears and anguish we experienced that night, it might be a good idea to simply end it then. But I still cared for her, and quite a bit.

I gave her an ultematum- if we would both start trying a lot harder, and she tried to begin loving herself, and respecting herself, I would stay. I left her place, and called 3 days later. I could tell that she had been crying. We decided to renew, and begin again. The next 4 days were incredible- we spent all our time together, going to dinner, walks through parks and across beaches, picnics, wall-climbing, and frequent, long bouts of the best sex I'd had in two years.

Then she had to help her grandparents move into their new house, in correlation with my going back to school. We didn't see one another for 5 days, and when we did, I could tell that things had already began to slip back. That was about 5 days ago.

Last May, I met [Terra]. It was at a pre-orientation meeting for Honduras, in a sectioned-off part of the campus bar. She was amazing- her confidence, beaming smile, and even her impeccable fashion sense all captured my attention immediately and held it through the evening.

I have seen and done a lot in my life. I've witnessed a loved one die, fought off violent punks and muggers, spoken with international leaders, and been with 4 girls at the same time. My private life has been characterized by the seeking of thrills, and new experiences.

I say this to give it weight, when I tell you that meeting Terra completely shattered my reality, and brought whole new meaning into the words nervous excitement for me. She sat next to me at the meeting, and it was literally all I could do to keep from passing out. I couldn't breathe, couldn't think, and I'm sure that I wouldn't have been able to stand if I'd had to. I've dated and hooked up with a lot of what people would call "babes", but I was completely unprepared for Terra's beauty and energy.

After the meeting, I only saw Terra a few times in the halls of the University, and every time it got a bit easier, but not much. I still have to lean against walls when I'm near her, to keep my knees from buckling. As a mixed curse and blessing, I have a night class with her this semester, "Topics in Latin American Politics", with only 9 other people in the class. It's a beautiful hell.

Terra is going to Honduras as well, and I think that if I focused, I could win her heart before we return, if not before we embark.

I am content in my current relationship, with Lisa, but I am not happy. There is something important that has been worn or burned away from our relationship, that I'm not sure we can get back. More importantly to me, Lisa is still completely devoted to me. She calls me her 'soulmate', and thinks that she'll never meet another guy that will treat her as good as I have. This is partly due to us being together for so long, and her not being able to imagine life withotu me. This is also partly due to her self esteem issues, and I have made frequent attempts to convince her otherwise, right from the beginning.

I know that if I leave Lisa, it will devestate her world. Almost all of our friends have a much stronger connection to me than they do to her, and I'm fairly sure that the last time she went out socially without me there as well, was about three months ago.

Additionally (and selfishly), there is of course no guarantees about what could happen between Terra and I. This excites me more than scares me, but it also presents the possibility of being alone. Like Lisa, after being in a relationship for so long, this is an unsettling prospect.

Thank you deeply and sincerely in advance, for your reply.

It sounds to me that you already have made up your mind in this regard and are just having a hard time facing it.

But, whatever you choose - do realize that what you're describing with Lisa may plaque you throughout *ANY* long-term relationship. There are inexplicalbe reasons why people may feel inadequate and don't possess self-confidence from time to time. Maybe consider if this has been always there for Lisa, or something that developed only recently.

But, you are 21 and maybe you might go through 5 relationships before you meet the right one.

In any case, just know that whatever you choose, you only have yourself to answer to. And, if you don't "feel" it anymore, maybe it's time to move on? It's not fair to yourself, and to Lisa when you are only half-heardetly in a relationship with her.

What do you think?

Thank you for replying, D kitten.

You're right in your assertion... I do already know where my heart lays in the matter, if not my mind. It's not my decision that I'm having difficulty coming to terms with... but, I suppose, the guilt and uncertainty of it.

I feel like the captain of a sinking ship, debating whether or not to try swimming for shore. I don't know whether to jump ship now, and try to make it there before nightfall... go down with it... or simply hold on for the moment, in case it somehow resurfaces.

Lisa's inadequacy issues have always been there, but I think they've been intensifying subconsciously for her over the past two years, wherein I've indicated the decline in our relationship.

I realize that it's unfair for me to remain in the relationship, to both of us, but therein lies the difficulty. If it were bad, this would be easy. But things are still decent; I'm still content. I know that Lisa is in the same boat as me, although I don't think she realizes it; she's too paralyzed by the fear of being alone, I think.

At this point I'm essentially on the fence... I know the path to take, but I don't know when or how to proceed.

Do it as soon as you can. Every hour, every minute you wait, it will only be that much more painful and for that much longer. You fear her reaction, you fear your own reaction, but in the end you know what is best. Put your heart into the break up just as much as you put it into that first kiss you shared.

Have you told Lisa about Terra and your encounters and how she makes you feel?

Wyote: Thank you for your reply; I know that you're right. When I was 9, I was riding with my 17 year old cousin, and she hit a deer... She was hysterical, and the poor little guy was lying on the road, legs broken, bleeding a little from the mouth. I had to kill it with a cast iron frying pan, it was the biggest thing we had with us... This is the same situation, with obviously more complex consequences. I'm mostly just afraid that I'll either make the wrong decison, or make the right one and go about it the wrong way.


Dawn: Thank you for your reply; and no, I havn't told her yet... and I don't plan to. I'm not preparing to end our relationship for another girl, the other girl is just an extra driving force. Lisa would be significantly more hurt if she knew that another girl is in the picture... I think it would be best to keep my feelings in that regard a secret... but I mean, I'm not sure. At all. What do you think?

Lostbefound: There seems to be many elements coarsing through your mind in regards to the dilemma you find yourself in. Maybe it would be easier to break things down and have some sort of organization.

First and foremost, you mentioned that you're on the fence. That would imply that you could go either way, correct? So, with that in mind - there are several possible avenues you could take. YOu can 1) be passive and watch the 'ship' sink. 2) Be proactive about things and try to save the 'sinking' ship. or 3) Abandon ship and just try to row as far away from it as possible and brush it from your mind that THAT has happened.

Bearing in mind that you've already tried and done the 1st choice, let's assume that you're being passive about it and without really doing anything, you know what's going on in your mind and heart; you figure that things will run its course and things will all work itself out - either good or bad. We know from the way you have posted that you're not too comfortable with sitting by passively and waiting. So, let's cross that out.
Oh, and yes - if I've gotten anything wrong at any assumptions, correct me please.

Let's look at the last choice, you can abandon ship and row far far away. Well, you also expressed discomfort in just leaving Lisa... which brings us to the last choice. Choice numero 2.

What have you "actively" done to solve Lisa's insecurity issues and fear of abandonment? You've mentioned that you don't have respect for those issues in her life, but have you ever aided her in trying to get her out of there? Granted, it's not your responsibility to be her parent or anything like that. But, if you've already been in a committed relationship for 4 years, it shows on some level that you've been there for her thick and thin... why give up now? What happens if you are with the next person, and OOPs - you realise they aren't perfect and they have faults that grate on your nerves? Is it going to slowly ebb away the fun, excitment leaving you contemplating whether or not you should bail too? All these are things to consider, but here are some of the things that you can try to alleviate and be PRO-active about Lisa's insecurity issues. Firstly, you can be honest and tell her what's bothering you. If that doesn't work, spend more time forwarding your life and see how she responds in your absence. If she doesn't use that as some sort of impetus for her own achievement, there is always options 3. *hehe* Maybe sit down with her and go through the papers for hobbies or school, or job that she wants to change and encourage her to pursue it. How long you want to help, and in what depth is of course, up to you. But, if you have tried your best and you feel that you've done so... and things are still the same... at least you will feel that you've given it your best and it's time to cut the ties... right? I guess the real remedy is either time apart from each other to learn to not be co-dependence, and/or the strength to push yourself in the face of contentment. Just because the situation is "OK" doesn't mean one should stop striving. Sometimes, the greatest foe is contentment b/c stagnancy sets in, and before you know it, you start to see NEGATIVITY in everything. Try something new together. Go rollerblading in the middle of the night and ask her what her dreams are... etc. Just do things outside the norm and see how both of you would react to it.

On another front, your fear that you might make the wrong decision resulting in ill consequences... all I have to say is this: If you're scared of standing by your gut feeling and decision and hurting someone as a result - you'll have to learn that soon. Because the more experience you have, the more you'll know that you have to do THAT all the time. Maybe you have to fire someone at work, or tell someone news that aren't going to make their day... but the truth is - maybe LISA should be dealing with her issues of abandonment and loneliness. You'll be doing her a favour by being honest. It's almost a dis-service don't you think.. and some kind of insult to you. I mean, she's with you - partly because she is afraid of being alone.... would she still be with you if she was independent? I also noticed that you're attracted to the other girl who showed signs of independence. So, I know that deep inside you want to be with a girl who can be independent and also *CHOOSES* to be with you and not be with you out of fear. I guess, more to the point, sometimes it's hurtful to be right - but people aren't made of rice paper either. Sure, she'll cry her eyes out maybe for a few months and maybe for a year... that's life - but, she'll get up and move on and live life. Right? You can't shield people all the time, especially when what you're doing isn't wrong, or right. It's just a decision. If you guys are meant to be together, you WILL be together. But, don't obligate yourself or push yourself too hard. And, don't be afraid to face pain as a result of what you know is right. What do you think?

P.S. this is a response to your line: I don't know how or when to proceed. - Maybe you should watch the movie, "CLOSER" with Natalie Portman, Julia Roberts, Jude Law, and Clive Owen. There is this one scene where Jude Law's character was so taken with Natalie Portman about her origin, and why she was in London, etc. She told him that she is from New York, and recently just left a relationship. He asked her how she did it, and she replied, "I just said, "Good-bye, I don't love you anymore". He was slightly taken aback, "That's it? Tha's all you said?!" She shrugged, smiled softly and said, "That's all you can say right? What more is there to say?! That's what happens when I lose feelings for someone. I just get up and leave." It's not word verbatim, but - you get the point. It's honesty , and if the other person can't handle for that moment in time... what can you do? Nothing. You move on. If everyone was smart, they won't stay at the scene of spilled milk too long and cry their head off forever. They'll go and grab a dish-towel and start to wipe up the mess. So, maybe Lisa will be a fighter and it'll make her into a better person.

Thank you, D Kitten, for such a generous and insightful reply

I think the best way of us both finding clarity is to address your perceptions, questions and insights individually.



you mentioned that you're on the fence. That would imply that you could go either way, correct?
The quandry I'm experiencing, is not the ending or salvaging of my relationship... it is whether to end it in 9-16 months, or in the very near future. So yeah, that's the fence I'm on... I'm pretty sure that the ship is sinking, and I'm eventually going to have to swim... the only question is, do I stay dry for as long as possible, or make it to shore before dark?



What have you "actively" done to solve Lisa's insecurity issues and fear of abandonment?
As for the insecurity issues...
To start off very basically, throughout our relationship I have frequently made efforts to convince her of her good looks, intelligence, sense of humour, and charm.

She was a teen model and an A student in high school, but never good enough for the standards she set for herself. I think that eventually she became so exasperated with never meeting those standards, that she just stopped trying. I've made many efforts in which I have tried to be subtle, from flowers and romantic dinners out of the blue, for no occasion, to writing her love songs singing her praises, to competing with her in extensive sexual teasing games, sometimes lasting more than 8 hrs at a time, trying to get her to admit her strengths.

As for the fear of abandonment, I actually wasn't aware of this until the night she tried to break up with me, a couple of weeks ago. To dispel these fears, I tried convincing her that she will, in fact, meet guys after me that will treat her just as good, and probably better. That she has the ability to stand without me to catch her if she falls.



What happens if you are with the next person, and OOPs - you realise they aren't perfect and they have faults that grate on your nerves?
It isn't really an issue of imperfections and faults, but rather one of polarized aims and goals. I want to experience everything life has to offer, all over the world, helping it as I can... and she seems to be content with a future as a cat lady, subscribing loyally to Reader's Digest and Dr. Phil. I've never seen a distant future for us, and until recently, I didn't think that she did either.



Firstly, you can be honest and tell her what's bothering you. If that doesn't work, spend more time forwarding your life and see how she responds in your absence.
She tends to do the self-pitying guilt trip thing whenever I tell her what I perceive to be problematic in our relationship... thus a lack of communication. I suppose that I could try to be firmer in my resolution to discuss the problems, but that would likely require my reaching the neighborhood of belligerance.

I've tried the forwarding bit, and she doesn't respond at all. She almost never calls me unless she's returning one of my calls. I've actually gone 2 or 3 weeks without seeing her, moving my life on ahead, simply because I didn't decide to call her. When I do see her again after these absences, I inevitably discover that she's done essentially nothing in the time apart but feed her cats and wait for my call.



Maybe sit down with her and go through the papers for hobbies or school, or job that she wants to change and encourage her to pursue it
This is a really good idea, and one that my friend [Kayla] recommended I try, when I spoke to her earlier today. I'm not optimistic about it, but it's definitely worth a shot.



Sometimes, the greatest foe is contentment b/c stagnancy sets in, and before you know it, you start to see NEGATIVITY in everything.
You hit the nail on the head; this is exactly the problem. For the past 6 months, the decline I've described has intensified, and our relationship has essentially been reduced to having sex, and watching movies. We discuss current events, politics, religion, little stuff... but we never communicate anymore, despite my efforts.

The difficulty I'm having is in deciding how necessary it is for me to bring things to a close. I know that she still thinks that she's happy, and I'm certainly content, if unsatisfied. Considering that we will be seperated by my studying abroad for 6 months in the near future, it is feasible that we could drag things out another year.

This raises two questions then... one being whether it is worth continued disatisfaction and unfulfilment of needs, to continue being romantically content for another year... and the other being whether it is fair to her to do so.



Try something new together. Go rollerblading in the middle of the night and ask her what her dreams are... etc. Just do things outside the norm and see how both of you would react to it.
This is a good idea, but it's one that could describe the first two years, and subsequent occasions, to a T. What I've found after many efforts of rekindling the flame, is that these spontaneous, exhilarating distractions are just sparks onto wet tinder.



So, I know that deep inside you want to be with a girl who can be independent and also *CHOOSES* to be with you and not be with you out of fear.
This is a really helpful insight, one that I've never articulated to Lisa. It is a significant aspect of what I've been feeling, and perhaps if I convey it to her, it will help matters... one way or another.



If you're scared of standing by your gut feeling and decision and hurting someone as a result - you'll have to learn that soon.
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I guess, more to the point, sometimes it's hurtful to be right
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But, don't obligate yourself or push yourself too hard. And, don't be afraid to face pain as a result of what you know is right. What do you think?
I think that I'm definitely scared, probably for the first time in my life. I am terrified of doing what feels like giving up on someone that I've shared so much with. And in a way, that's what I'd be doing. Inside, I realize what I'll eventually have to do... yet so much of me hates to do it, especially before I absolutely need to.

Yet, as I've learned at length from putting essays off until the last minute, procrastination makes us into our own worst enemies. I realize that this will continue to get worse, the longer I leave it.

I know it sounds corny, but the thought that has irked the most tears from my eyes, is that of never again feeling her heart beat next to mine.



maybe Lisa will be a fighter and it'll make her into a better person.
I hope so. For all the frustrations I've experienced from some of her choices and attitudes, I deeply love and respect Lisa, even if I'm no longer in love with her.



Thank you so much, D Kitten, for your very helpful responses. Your generous insights have made no small difference in my life. I think I will check out the film you recommended. I loved Natalie Portman in Garden State and V.

Losttobefound:

A main issue with your situation is honesty and respect. Do you respect yourself enough to be honest to yourself? It seems you do because you have clearly told yourself that you know your relationship with Lisa will eventually end. Now is this honesty transparent to Lisa - does she know this, have you communicated to her that you know in your heart that your relationship will eventually have to end?

In regards to the question in my previous post and your reply:

quote:

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...no, I havn't told her yet... and I don't plan to. I'm not preparing to end our relationship for another girl, the other girl is just an extra driving force. Lisa would be significantly more hurt if she knew that another girl is in the picture... I think it would be best to keep my feelings in that regard a secret... but I mean, I'm not sure. At all. What do you think?

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This also is an issue of honesty and respect. Have you considered all the possible outcomes of being honest to Lisa? You have said that she would be hurt if she knew about Terra. Yes, that is true and most likely, but, it is only one possible reaction out of the many reactions she could have. She could also react to it with empathy and feel that it would be in your best interest to pursue Terra. If you tell Lisa all you can about Terra and your feelings, she may react to it by concluding that Terra is more compatible to who you are than she is. She may decide she does not want to be with you after all. You have to ask yourself, is it fair and is it your place to decide how and what Lisa's reaction will be and therefore censor things from her because you think that it will be best for her? Are you respecting her by doing this?

The best and the right thing for you to do, for yourself and for Lisa, is be completely honest and open, no matter how daunting or painful that sounds. It will speed up the inevitable processes that are meant to occur.