Me, myself and God

An example:

The phrase 'oh Lord how you toment me'

Could be simplified to:

'Oh how I torment myself'.

Sounds vaguely familar so is there a reference as to who orginated the statement? The phrase 'oh Lord how you toment me'

But I think you are making a valid point, we are the cause for our own discomfort to a large extent? Looking at the World today, we promoted 'Capitalism vs Communism' attitude which evolved to the present situation. Funny thing is we chose not to follow "GOD's Way" then we cry out about GOD's failure . . . as ridiculous it seems to be, in truth following it may lead to the peace which we should seek?

I don't know where the quote came from its just an example of man's need or want for God when bad things happen.

Lets go through the steps:

1. Oh Lord how you torment me

2. What is me?
3. Me is a collection of electromagnetic radiation; gravity and nuclear attraction.
4. What is all else? All 'things' are composed of teh above
5. As we look deeper, matter reduced to almost nothing
6. At this level we get to quantum level...eseentially the barrier between the edge of my skin and the rest of the universe breaks down.
7. So we have a flow of interacting 'stuff' that composes what I perceive as individual things, which in truth are flows between 'entities'.
8. So I am a small amount of data in a larger amount of data.

9. So what is God?
10. God is all the data

11. So how do I relate to God?
12. If the component of a computer can only operate with all the other components working also, then one thing relies on everything else.
13. So I am determined?
14. If any one thing was to break down in nature, the whole thing would stop working, like if we had a wire with electricty in it. If you cut the wire; the wire stops. The difference is the wire would no longer exist either. But as far as I can tell this is impossible.
15. So I am God?
16. I am a part of God. I am like a character in a movie. But the script is already written.

17. So, if I am a part of God, then line 1 reduces to:
18. 'Oh how I torment myself'.

Our purpose therefore is to understand why we do things. This means, however, understandingh everything else until we get so much information it all fits into a neat little summation.

How everything started off is still a mystery. How long will it be a mystery?

Nicely done! As for how long, all the questions & all the answers lay before us . . . the problem is in understanding how they fit together to make the neat little (package) summation?

Sounds Budhist to me - that God is within and it is us and we both bless and curse our own self being connected from within to a higher power.

Sounds good to me.

All things can be argued Decius, especially this excuse for a logic train explaining how we are God. We are not God. This explenation heyjme, implys that God is human, as we are. God is not human. Jesus was the human. You also explain 'me' as if 'me' has no soul, is only a clollection of small articles of matter working together to make larger matter work.
Anyhow, what are you trying to prove here? That you are God? You torment yourself?

Preator;

I am trying to understand; or to be mopre precise; comprehend the scientific knowledge we have and tie this is with how we operate as humans; and as far as is plausible and rational; what God is and where the limits to an understanding of God are. Religious teachings act as a tool in this process; it is not that I am trying to prove the Bible or any other religious teaching; rather I am seeking to use knowledge and my own resources to seek the truth.

The point of logical discussion is that it is more precise and so it can be attacked, and criticised so it can be evolved. You can choose any step and criticise this.

We have shown; plausibly that matter reduces to subatomic particles and we can almost unbelievably predict their behavious to accuarcies unimaginable; altough some particles exhibit some randomness; but this is still only relaitively random; the laws of probability and large scale seem to exhibit this.

I once heard a Christian say to me 'the scientists are climbing up the hill whilst the Christians are sitting on top of it laughing as he climbs up'. To which I answered; 'That's like readng the last page of a murder mystey novel to find out who did it without any of the investigation'.

We have serious problems; which can be solved only by understanding. And I think that an important one is that I am accountable for my own actions; and the understanding that what I am is not necessarily, if at all, confounded by the space I occupy; for through time; the mass within that space is itself changing.

I leave room for a creator; I cannot see how I can possibly not; that void is exactly this; a void. Anything into it is specualtive. However, we do have three things; the father, son and the holy spirit. I could contemplate the idea that the Holy Spirit is something unimaginable; so far at least.

However, if God is all three; then I think we have moved somewhere close to understanding the laws of the natural universe. And I think it is much safer to stick with the rational known that to side and speculate with the irrationally unkown.

I believe through small understanding of the way I act that largely most of my acts which are not productive or good or virtuous are the act of me being selfish. Weakness, selfishness and insecurity are signs of weak character. Yet, those who are like this; I understand it is not necessarily their fault. But we have the opportunity to become greater than this. And this we have to do by ourselves. How many times do we say 'Maybe I'll finish off this fag packet and then I'll stop'?

I think I found something wrong with step 14.

If all things are apart of nature and all things in nature depend on each other to function, you depend on god and god depends on you, then that would also mean that you depended on dodo birds, and dodo birds depended on you. Dodo birds are gone, yet you are fine.

Why is this?

Because you were seperated from interaction with eachother, much like you are seperated from interacting with a being not in this realm. Therefore, becasue of the seperation much like the one with you and the dodo birds, god is seperated from you and therefor is not comepletely dependent on you, and you not him. Therefor you are not nececcarily hurting yourself, just that you are being hurt.

No?

quote:

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All things can be argued

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In the Navy I became the command's drug and alcohol adviser. As such, I was required to attend an AA meeting as an observer.

It struck me vary odd. Had a guy who became a Christian and testifies that he found Jesus and Jesus saved him from Alcohol.

Then another guy dismisses that claiming that he found the power within (the God within). No power outside of him could have saved him. It was this power within that saved him from Alcohol.

There are two things they agree on - 1) They were saved from alcoholism and 2) their version of God saved them.

What they disagree on is what this God is, and how this God works.

But you see, nobody knows what God is, nobody can know what God is, and you can't know how God works unless you are one, so why argue.

I don't believe the Buddhist teach that God is human, but that you connect from within rather than from without.

I wish everybody who believed in God would study all religions. You would be facinated to discover the similarities and in so doing grasp the more important things and realize that it is silly to argue over the trivial.

Okcitykid; yes I agree that most religions essentially preach the same thing; or rather that the proponents of the major religions probably had the same insighst but had different ways of communicating them; or a different audience understanding. However, each was, I'm sure, conditioned by their environments at that time.

Awakened; I se where you are coming from. See, the point is time is an event horizon. If we look at the event in isolation; which is impossible; but lets do this; from it stems a conical shape of other events as time flows. In reality these events still come from the same masses, but they are arramged in different orders. The idea of cause and effect in time is much like the idea of gravity, I suspect, with distance. As distance time increases, the causal link between two events diminshes; but it differs in that it is because of the effect of other events; imagine a galaxy of stars all closely pulling and pushing apart; there's chaos but the fundamental law remains the same.

To chase the dodo to me its impossible to all show the links. However, the carcus on the dodo would have fed another (maybe even a human) and probably would alter something they did. When you think of the number of sperm a male produces in his lifetime (maybe billions?), then, you see it is not hard to conceive that this array of particles that is called me, if it has to be exactly this way, depends greatly upon little event fluctuations.

However, there is another thing, which I leave room for, and can't fit into this logical perspective because I don't know if it is true or not. The idea of a holy spirit. Because, I still don't know absolutely what I am. For example, if I have to have exactly this sperm and this egg to come into existence, then my being is dependent upon, and perhaps purely, proceding events. However, if what I am 'in total' and not 'the sum of individual mass particles' could be produced with some variances in genetic coding, then I can leave room for a Holy spirit because it means I am, afterall, being even though the particles that occupy me are not there. And there is evidence now for this; I shed my skin. On the other hand you could argue this affects me. I don't know; it needs further investigation.

Hmm.. It seems I misunderstood the point that you were going a here.