If god exist why doesn't he show himself to the world? - Page 2

I think I agree with your point to an extent, Decius... if we can deduce something can exist, it doesn't mean it must or that we know anything about it.
If we can't possibly know about something, can't prove or reasonably deduce its concrete effects on anything, it can still exist... if there's a point in "knowing" such a thing.
I'll go with Occam's Razor with this: "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity"; God needs way too many assumptions, for me.
"It is beautiful, in a sense, that through this line of thinking we now know that God does not want us to see him temporarily. He only presents himself to us in an infallable and unforgettable way: through knowledge."
I understand, but remember the same line of thinking allows the solution that God does not exist...or that there's simply something that caused or
influenced the laws of physics, but it doesn't need to be sentient.
What if God doesn't show himself because it doesn't "know" it exists ?
You are also forgetting the possibility that it doesn't "want" to show up, and we "see" it without permission.

heyjime1:
"In fact, the computer that your looking at now is composed of various atoms which will, in and of themselves by about a year all have dissappeared from the computer. Yet the cmputer still maintains a form. "
Please elaborate. All the atoms in your computer can't disappear in a year unless they are extremely unstable elements (wich don't disappear at all, just change into more stable elements...via weak nuclear force if I remember), or you expose it to high-energy plasma (too cold and they'll still be atoms).

Not to be a pedant, since this isn't even my first language, but doesn't the thread title lack an "s" ?

a little off the topic but..

decius do you believe there is a god?

you know that he gave us freewill.... so we wouldnt be his puppets

that confuses us.. why would he let us choose agianst him? well that just makes the ones who choose to obey him worthy of him..

i just had a thought.. the ones who go to heaven become part of him.. cause if we went to heaven as individuals we would think that it was unfair that he has all the power.. therefore heaven could be becoming god.. knowledge on how to create a universe will be one of the many enlightenments that we will find inside us.. justa theory.. of course we cant relate heaven to our earthly knowledge

Analytical29, do you think of God as a being with the capability of thought? Also that if our use of the freewill we've been given doesn't suit this God's supreme standards, we are not worthy of him and are punished? If so I dislike that concept very much. There are certain things in our nature as humans that we don't have control over (I mean nature versus nurture). So if obeying God means going against our true nature and beliefs (how are we to know if we are ultimately right or wrong?), then what kind of God would give us individuality and free will, and then turn around and punish us for using it?

Although I'm still learning about where I stand in terms of my beliefs on this general topic, I do agree that after physical death we return to God, so to speak. But I think God makes much more sense as the source of all energy, rather than an all-seeing supreme judge. That said, "energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred,' so I believe we just return (for lack of knowing a better word) to that "source." We become free of our desires, we no longer feel any form of pain, but also no joy. Just true peace, neutral to everything. Certainly not something we would look forward to immensely right now, because we're alive and we want "heaven" to be a place where we'll be in perpetual ecstasy.

I believe that the fact that we think, that we posess a consciousness unique to ourselves and only knowable by ourselves and ourselves alone is god's way of revealing himself to us, which in many ways may express the idea that we are god. We just haven't discovered ourselves as yet.

I read the computer reference a couple of years ago and can't remember the name of the magazine. Th essence of the story was so state that most of not all of the atoms have gone yet the structure remained the same. I think the period was about a year but thinking about it it must have been longer.

I do remembr something similar though-a claim that all the individual atoms in everything material of your entire body, on average, will have changed themselves over 2.5 years. What this means is that as an 18 year old, materiallistically speaking, you are entirely different to how you are when you are 20.5 years old. However, whilst the form changes the general structure remains the same. There is of curse the flaw that it is gradual change, but nonetheless, the material we know of as the smallest is still not there later, which means that we are 100% different over say three years physically speaking. This at least interesting to scientists-it does not say of course that there are not forces at work though. Thus, we could argue forces such as the weak nuclear force are the only constants. At most, and plausibly, this leads to the idea that ultimately it is a kind of intelligent design that forms the material.

wow ok..

but yea disenchanted i like your thoughts..

I dont believe god has the same thought process we have.. cuz we exist in a dimension with TIME and we relate present situations to past or future situations..

im not sure about the punishment question

at times i do wish for eternal peace.. but hey im human and cant help it

Yep, that's our curse...trapped in linear time and three-dimensional illusion and, thus, constantly preoccupied with material existence--a completely different thought process than god. That's why many eastern religions strive to "transcend" space and time, to transcend ordinary thought process and achieve enlightenment, the mind of god, which is believed to be our true self...Just clarifying.

Although limited by our physical selves I agree with wizardslogic the only true way to ultimately find answers to these kinds of questions one must free the soul/consciousness from the body be it temporary or permanently.

We see God all the time, we just don't know how to. Once one answers the question 'who am I', you realize what God is. God is our innermost self, you can call God the soul/the source/your true nature, actually it can be said that there is no such thing as God, becuz everything is One. Don't search for the Truth outside of you, look into yourself and you will find more than you ever bargained for.

god exists he doesnt have to show himself to the world you have to find him.. PERIOD

hahaha and computers are evil-'period'.
nywayz, one needs to have a really open mind if you want to know God. To truly understand life and what is the cause and essence of life, beliefs are not enough. I agree with anaylitical that you have to search. Even if you do not beleive in god, you should still search, search for what life is all about, always remaining open to the possibily that there is more to this world than meets the eye.
There is a story about Buddah:
In the forest Buddah was recieving people for queries. A diciple of his was within hearing range. One person came and asked Buddha wheather God really existed. He answered yes. Then another person came and asked him 'God exists doesn't he', to which Buddha replied no! The diciple who had been hearing this was very confused-how could he give two contradictory answers? But then a third person came, and said 'I don't know Wheather God exists or not, please tell me. The buddha withought saying a word told him to sit silently amongst the birds and trees and meditate with him. After a while, the man stood up , silently thanked him and took off! The man who had listend to all of this couldn't hold himself and in a state of great distress went over to Buddha and said apologetically that he had heard the Buddha but how could he give two different answers and the third time no answer? The buddha replied that the first person wanted the buddha to verify his beleifs that God doesn't exist, so to break them he said yes. The second person wanted him to confirm his belief that God existed, so he said no. The third person was the true seeker, who hadn't closed his mind and made deductions on wheather God existed or not. When he sat silently in Buddhas presence, all questions of God went away from his mind, and he realized that wheather God existed or not wasn't important-the important question was whather there is silence or not, wheather there is peace and love

God does show himself to the world every day in various ways and manifestations. We are simply too self-absorbed and ignorant to see it. Kinda ironic if we were created by a God who wants us to know Him/Her yet likes to keep us in the dark so to speak...it's like God is playing some big joke on us.

Ha! The inner workings of divine intervention. Hehehe.

I suppose the only way to understand 'God' is to understand the meaninglessness of life. You all give life so much meaning but in fact there is none. God is a man made concept, therefore we're the only people that could become him. Don't you see... we're all God and we're all Satan. You see a bug in your house, you could either crush it or set it into nature. Same goes for whatever is bigger than us. If you saw a bunch of less intelligent beings making temples for you, what would you do? Make them serve you? Have them do your every bidding? Or would you be a kind god and help the beings praying to you in times of war? We are gods and we are servants at the same time. Life is an endless loop that never changes. Whatever ideal you persue in your mind, you in essence become. Sorry for such a dark and impudent outlook on life and I hope I didn't put a blemish on that golden idol you call God.

Life is what you put into it. If you want more pleasure, you have to suffer more pain. It's so relative and meaningless. I think once we know everything, we'll see all of the fallacies in our actions and understand its just easier to be at equilibrium all the time. Eternal peace, what could be better?

Why doesn't God show himself to the world?

Maybe he is and we just aren't paying attention. Anyway it depends on what your concept of God is. If you are expecting an ancient looking man in robes with wisdom in his eyes smiling down on you from the clouds telling you you are doing a good job and are going to go to heaven , I think you are going to be very dissapointed. Why do people insist on viewing God as a kindly old human gentleman. God is the creator of the universe of everything that ever was and ever will be, he created you and me, he has set the universe on its course and now as a teeny tiny minute part of that universe or universes we have to just get on with it and just be, just exist and maybe one day when we are dead and our energies that came from the stars return there, maybe in some distant part of another dimension of existence we will meet with the spirit or energy of God the creator.
In the meantime we have to feel that ancient, powerful, spiritual creator force in or whole soul our whole being and use it to believe that there is a reason for existence and its time to do something about it! Everyone in their own little way can make a difference just by being here, I truly believe that and for that I truly thank God the creator of everything.

Perhaps God does show himself to us, we are just to ignorant to notice or to cynical to see it?
As an example, the christian traditiions warns about gluttony, yet through out our history, nations rise to power by rapidly consuming their natural resources then war with others to maintain their position and ultimately fall due to these limiting factors.
Yet we continually go through this process till war brings destuction to those nations, at some point one might think that we would comprehend this factor yet here we are a world at war . . . war on terrorism, war in Iraq, the war on drugs . . . Is it our love of war, death & destruction that keeps us from accepting the 'truth' that some claimed to have come from God?