quote:
id love to hear how any of the things you mentioned at the end of your posts are good things?
Internal population control.
quote:
i admit, yes the war in Iraq probably did stop the torture and abduction
Heh, actually I was referring to the US torture of others.
And it doesn't surprise me due to mainstream media's spins as well as information omission. But I bet you money that abductions are up.
Little talked about and known is the US's and its allies let alone enemies penchant for human traffic, especially of youths but all ages as well for sex, and all ages for organs, and experiments. Some of it for ritualistic purposes and secret societies and religions.
Another thing one can never be too wary of about one's own government's claims against any proclaimed enemy is propaganda.
A perfect example is the proven lie against Saddam's forces discarding hundreds of babies while stealing incubators as proclaimed before and abused during gulf 1.
Not to mention things like WMD's today, especially those easy to detect like Nukes, we have ways of detecting those existing and being made with no need for inspectors even, this is true for quite a few other WMD's as well. That was always a lie. Not to mention years of the compliant destruction of them through inspections.
Not again to mention where most of his stockpile and knowhow came from, but that's another topic.
quote:
but has the actual death toll fallen?
God no, a main point of my comment was that it dwarfs any death tolls of both 9/11 and the holocaust.
And before you have a coniption fit about the holocausts numbers and ours against Iraqis, check the numbers bud, and know that I'm not referring to just the war now, but gulf 1, sanctions in between, especially on the heels of the Iran Iraq war, which we armed and otherwise helped both sides, far increasing any death, deficits, and loss of infrastructure which when combined with environmental contaminents affecting food and water and the closure of outside import of them through sanctions makes up the largest of the death tolls, a recorded 5 million dead children under the age of 5 or 8 before this war ever started.
As for since this war has started, I cringe to even think about it. Things like depleted uranium and its radioactive waste, used in gulf one, but far more amounts today, 4.5 billion years of radiation to come. Strap in.
Again, this doesn't even include all periods and facets of clandestine provocation and intentional destabilization.
quote:
I know we havent been on the earth the whole time, but to use that arguement would suggest that humans are the bad thing that happened to the earth.
How do you know we're not? We are one of the greatest threats to the existance of all life on earth, and perhaps the earth itself. In many ways.
There have been definitions for organisms who take over their environment, devouring and destroying it (their host) and themselves in the process, rather than coexisting in balanced harmony. Like viruses, disease. Things we tend to call "not good".
quote:
the idea of balance is a concept of human religion, even if it does exist, surely it would seem likely that there would be balance good and evil in human life.
Oh I'm sure, though the religion element is irrelevant, not to be facetious, because Viruses exist at all, I'm guessing they serve a purpose. I just don't claim to know it, besides a form of population control. Same as disease.
That and the fact that I'm a firm believer in the natural contradiction that exists in all things being both bad and good at all times. That balance always exists, even in an imbalance.
Yes this makes an aspect of even bothering to talk about this or anything kinda pointless, but hey, its seems evident, and yet so do the fun and seemingly useful side of such converations and debates. So why not.
quote:
but give me an example of joy being caused on the scale that 9/11
9/11 is one, do you know how many people mainly in our own military industial complex benefited from it? And still are? Not to mention the degree of patriotism and sense of strength and togetherness that came from it, except for american middle easterners and muslims of course, they were totally shit on. But second to that is yearly holidays. The end of all world wars. I think they trump 9/11 hands down. The only reason 9/11 was so hyped was TV. Which lots of people make big bucks on as well, through useful propaganda as well as the industry itself.
quote:
and for gods sake how the fuck can you blame the holocaust on overpopulation?
I didn't.
Its a problem, its an underrated source of all kinds of social problems and issues. Its one of those things you find when looking beyond things such as despotism, racism, economics, and the pesky neighboring country bullying you mentioned, its more towards finding a source to these symptoms, to finding why despots and these things are made and allowed to happen by all the people who let it etc. One way is through direct impacts on environment and health standards, both mental and physical caused by such things as overpopulation.
Overpopulation creates food supply and living space issues which create serious problems. Poverty, ignorance, class wars, and lacking education, all sorts of fun symptoms that aren't sources.
Overpopulation seems to be a critical turning point from environmental and human balance and coexistance, like with any creature micro or macro scopic. But I'm sure you knew that.
quote:
i apologise for the fact that that was off topic, but i couldnt let that go by.
No worries, we all, myself included, simply demand we be aloud to put our foot in our mouths at times.
quote:
but can someone give me an example of balance in our time? on a human scale, instead of the morbid idea that we get all the shit while the planet was fine without us.
Our time? As in the existance of humans or those of us alive reading this?
All humans, sure, before we overpopulated and lost touch with our world and environment and their needs.
Since us alive today? Sure, in those areas of seclusion where we maintain such balances regardless of degrees of education or technology.
In the developed world, probably not. That was my point.
quote:
It causes prostitution, STD's, and sometimes hurtful emotion
Um no. Sex causes not these things. Sex's inherent value causes prostitution, which there is nothing uncommon or unnatural about (fyi, straight up sex for money is least common existing form of prostitution, as opposed to, status, promises of commitment and love, gifts and incentives such as everything from dinner and a movie to houses and access to personal riches, number one may be a subconcious built in desire for highest available quality gene swapping)
Diseases aren't generally caused by sex, mostly just spread by it, but again, it is in no way comparable to say, breathing. Our number one means of disease spread.
Hurtful emotions, insecurity and chemical imbalances, most often caused by defects, abuse, and general trauma.
Otherwise I think you have a better grasp on the balance idea.
My Posts
35yrs • M • 
