The last leg for Atheism - Page 11

Well the thread used to be acording to the title the last leg of athesim, but we have majorylly gotten off topic. So why dont we all read from the beggining of this thread and begin again where it left off.

We got her because were trying to determine whether there could be a universal moral standard to which we would abse our beliefs on. Atleast thats what I thought.

okcitykid said:

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They know killing is wrong

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I think in most cases your right because people naturally love things in life. But there is such a thing as nihilism and people wanting nothing but to kill all others. I think it has EVERYTHING to do with how your brought up till adulthood or even farther, through your whole life since you never stop learning.
The life you live sculpts who you are.
It harbors every experience you feel.
Through your thoughts and experiences it will create the moral standard you live your life by. (does it feel wrong to do certain things or right)
My point was that there ARE people who have no morals at all and feel nothing wrong when they kill someone or something.
Meaning that it is impossible to standardize moral basis.
Which means its impossible to say what is wrong for you is also wrong for me.
Thats about all.

Maybe you just can't believe or accept that someone wouldn't think twice about killing.

The whole point of morality is that it is universal. If there were no set standard for morality there would be no way for any law to exist as everyone would be looking out for himself and no one would obey the laws. Just because many or some people do not accept morality and do what they want does not mean that morality does not exist, it only means those people don't obey morality. But there are still moral standards that apply to everyone.

The Gnostics had a belief, I used to believe it, but now I don't know.

But I'll share it with you and let you kick it around.

They believed that some were born on this earth with a false spirit and their whole life will be self destructive to themselves and others until most likely they are killed, at that point the true God will show mercy on them and give them a true spirit and let them be born again on earth with a true spirit.

thats uhh.. pretty out there.
wtf?
how'd that come to be?

(yes, i am being a hypocrit here)

I don't think that there is a moral standard that applies to everyone.
I think the idea is unique to everyone.
Although the majority of them are similar thus government and law is established.
Of course my idea is apt to change though.
If someone can give me any single moral that applies to everyone let me know, please.
Lata babes.

Maybe morals are set only on those that think they are set on them. I think morals are more a tradition thing not the actual thing. If you keep being told something especially at a young age it eventaully gets to you. You eventually accept it as fate. It is the only. The reasons of today aren't necessarily the reasons of tommorrow.

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The reasons of today aren't necessarily the reasons of tommorrow.

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Are you anticipating a time when murder is a good thing, and people should try to hate as many others as possible?
Things like love and respect are to be exercised by all, some people disagree but does that mean that they shouldn't respect and love other people?
A moral isn't a law that you cannot escape but it is an expectation or standard that is in everyone's best interest to adhere to.

Murder already is a good thing in many minds. Look at abortion. In china the overpopulation. Killing terrorists. There are plenty of examples that can lead to murder being good in minds of today. All through history people have cheered about killing what about those morals? If morals really existed and was a true authority of the world then people would really live by them. Obviously the best interest isn't motivating enough. Morals exist in those that are suckered into thinking they exist.

If morals don't exist then how do we govern ourselves?

We aren't governed. There is only man made authority.

And this authority has no power over you? Morals are standards for behaviour and they clearly do exist. You may think it is wrong to sexually assualt people, and that would be a moral.

Only because I wouldn't want to be sexually assaulted. I'd like to say that's a moral standard but obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. And perhaps someone wouldn't mind things done upon themselves that say another wouldn't want.

The point is that you would not like to be sexually assaulted and this idea creates a certain behaviour for you (i.e. you do not sexual assault others) this is a moral standard. It is true that not all people feel that way, but does it make it right for them to sexually assault others because they see nothing wrong with it? Clearly this is not the case because sexual assault is still a criminal offence. The law makes up for the morals that some people do not have. This creates a legal solution to dealing with those that seek to harm others