what's the logic in x dying for our sins? - Page 7

Maybe i'm retarded which I suspect sometimes but it makes about the same sense as your first post to me.
I always have a hard time explaining myself to other on topics like this because it is so in depth and based on your own views. People have a hard time understanding and/or excepting those thoughts.
There I go rambling.
Much <3

This is what I see, I watched my father do it. Jesus died on the cross for my sins, so if I believe that I'm sure to go to heaven, nomatter what I have done or will do, unfortunately those who don't believe this will go to hell, nomatter what they did or will do.

So why did Jesus even bother to teach us "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment.39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." He goes on to teach who our niegbors are.

Why did he bother if we're going to do whatever we want to do anyways, and it doesn't matter, because he died for our sins, and it doesn't matter, because we're going to heaven anyways, and it doesn't matter because you believe in Jesus and were saved.

You know what - won't you be surprised when Jesus says, who are you, I don't know you, because you never did one thing he said to do, because it didn't matter, he died for your sins, well, I think you're going to be surprised.

i feel i should trouble you this before i respond to your post: are you being sarcastic? i mean nothing by this, i am just aware of how the subtlies of human expression can be lost in the crudity of 'chat room communication'. forgive my difficulties.

I see what your saying OKcity.... I would come to that conclusion also; sometimes what we are taught comes from people who have half truth and speak from there own convictions and pass those perceptions on to minds that are trusting. From what I've studied Romans 8: 8-9 paraphased if you belive in me that i was raised from the grave then you will have everlasting life. Being raised up from the dead is what you would have to put your faith in. We all can find out that a man 2000 yrs ago was crucified that was done all the time Jesus wasn't any special at the crucifix. if you belive that he did'nt stay dead is where you obtain your everlasting life.

The bible also says that there will be people who come before him that say lord lord i did all this in your name let me and he will say depart from me i never knew you and they are cast into everlasting darkness where there is weeping and nashing of teeth basicly a place where people will be cursing God.

Those two statments were for the phairees that were trying to trick him into to a blasphemous conversation to convict him and have him stoned.

No. I mean what I wrote.

I don't however believe in hell as a place of forever burning.

But clearly if you read this parable of Jesus, you will see that those who were saved did not even know they were saved (so how then can beliefs have saved them) and those who werent thought they were.

My father did a lot of bad things in his life. Two words could have fixed most of it, "I'm sorry": But he believed it didn't matter any more, Jesus died for all the bad things he did, he didn't have to say 'I'm sorry." He lived on following after success as if it was deserved, no matter who he lied to or cheated to achieve it, Jesus died so he could.

could you paraphrase the parable in which Jesus spoke of.

Some people do see it fit for themselves that they could call themselves Christian and commit violence of acts but the bible clearly states that the goats will be sperated from the sheep. Many will say Lord Lord I've done this in your name but will be cast out. So right there God lets you know you can't continue to do what you think is right; lying, cheating, stealing, and killing and hold hands with God saying Lord I went to church in your name. Lord I cast out devils in your name. You have to have a relationship with him

It is always okay to paraphrase as long as we are careful not to distort its meaning and this can sometimes happen by accident. Seeing I'm not real good at remembering technical things, I've made this mistatke several times.

But no - I would say that you don't have to have a personal relationship with him in a sense. I mean, you might know him and not know you know him, example:

quote:

---

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

---

quote:

---

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

---

I understand the conclusion you draw; I thought that he gave you those statments so you would know who he was and create an relationship with him through caring for these people.

I think Jesus could see the future and knew that there would be some who would make claims of faith for fame and fortune so Jesus said this so that we in the future would know the difference.

Not that we did not know, but it helps to read it, it makes you more sure.

Awakend.. i can see that if i was in your postioin, the psychological motive you have for saying "your going to hell" as someone is dissing you, your beliefs and maybe comming off looking negatively like an egosmart (that may not be a word) but the point is.. i can argue that that is why you said it and you wouldnt have said it if he didnt annoy you.. i also have my own reasons to believe that hell doesnt exist (at least not the christian kind of hell).. (your probably saying err christianity is the true so i shouldnt have said "christian kind" but hell period)<<that might be a bit irrelavent.. um? one thing i wanted to say is that if feel so deeply that people like you would go to hell (i dont but thats what i want to say to balance my side) ( then maybe i sohuldn't have said that).. anyways the point is that maybe you dont believe in hell 100% as in all of your thought allthe time whole life.. (some parts may doubt it or possiblty of not there).. i wanted to lash at you in this post and say wha i said somewhere in this post but screw it.. i forgot my main point.. i tihnk i said it in here somewhere though..

quote:

---

Along with logical sense which is what is most real we must not forget that even though this is what is most real it may too be a false reality. For we all may be dreaming or this is a reality created by a higher being such as God or aliens!

---

GOD, not being human must be alien . . . at least to mankind?

Noone can prove God's existence logically. Noone can disprove God's existence logically. Therefore, the conclusion becomes: becoming involved in arguments of this nature is an equivalent to beating your head against a wall.

quote:

---

Noone can disprove God's existence logically.

---

One can disprove God's existence logically.

Logic is more powerful than God. If there is a logical reason why God exists, then logic created God, is all-powerful and restrains God.

If there is no logical reason why God exists, then it holds that the Universe could exist for no logical reason and therefore require no creator. If God has logical thoughts then logic is more powerful than God. If God chose to create anything it must have had reasons to do so, therefore logic will have been dictating God's thoughts from the moment of God's inception.

If God thinks logically, then logic must have existed before God and God did not create logic. If there is a logical reason why God exists, then logic is more potent than God and restrains God. If there is no logical reason why God exists, then it holds that the Universe could exist for no logical reason and therefore require no creator. If it is true that God exists outside of time and therefore "everything has a cause" does not apply to God then it is equally possible that logic, not God, is what exists outside of time and requires no cause.

To say that god doesn't obey logical rules, to say that God could create a round square, for example, is to say that the abilities of god are abilities that cannot logically exist. 'God' is an illusion. 'God' is a human construct. 'God' is a fraud.

The very origin of God is illogical.
Where did God come from?
He didn't come from anywhere he was always there.
He has no beginning.
No end. Which is illogical. Everything has to logically have a beginning.
The same can be said with evolution and any other idea of any origin.
Its all illogical.
Atleast thats how I see it right now.

Zato: evolution is logical. 'God' is illogical