Enilightenment - Page 2

when i lucid dream i can consume psychedelics and have the congruent experience. however, that does not make it real. i can also accomplish this feat, to varrying degrees, through deep meditation. however, this is also insufficient evidence. as for the 'this is all there is' doctrine, how does that equate to a prevailing guiding philosophy of' life is a bitch and then you die'? if you do not agree with my perspective thats cool.hell, if we all agreed with each other this site would blow. however, at least offer a responce that doesnt take massive logic jumps, or attempts to belittle. even if there is nothing beyond the veil, we can still engage in the respectful trasference of ideas.

wholly

Here is logic that does not take huge jumps. It is illogical that nothing exists after death. However when you come right down to it, existing after death is also illogical. So then my friend what is the better of the to illogical's? That is why existing is more logical then not existing.

so i guess i would have to ask, if one has experienced nothing but existance, how can one logically conclude that it is 'better' that not existing? i know those who prefer to dream, and i know those who prefer dreamless sleep.

quote:

---

enligtenment means different things to different people, some people associate it with the realisation of the true self and others with the effects of drugs.
For me it is the realisation of the ultimate reality and that this existance is merely an illusion compared to it.

---

Rajpal, enlightnment may mean different things to different people, but wheather you reach it through realizing the 'self' or though glimpsing the true nature of reality, there is only one enlighment.

I think the defination of 'true nature of reality' that you yourself adhere to, is probably the best defination, as you can't make up some imagined conception of it like people have done with God.

Wholly, why do you think 'this is all there is'? I mean if as you said youv'e had experiances through drugs and meditation, normally it createssome sort of mystery in one about what life is.

quote:

---

so i guess i would have to ask, if one has experienced nothing but existance, how can one logically conclude that it is 'better' that not existing?

---

'Logic'. I f you want to engage in philosphical and rational discussions, logic is the key, but in spirtualality, logic and rationality is a major hinderence.

Regarding what you said, we can't say enlighnment is better than simple existance until you have experianced it.

'i know those who prefer to dream, and i know those who prefer dreamless sleep.'

Some people prefer dreamless sleep because as I m sure you must know, we are still aware of our sleep.

what is spirituality? and if you could, where is the research that supports the conscious awareness of dreamless sleep. i have yet to come across it, which is not to say it is not out there

Spirituality is experiance of the divine, or rather spirtuality is the path through which you realize who you are, through which you realize the ultimate reality, the Truth, your true nature, or God, whichever name you choose to give reality.

'we' arn't aware of sleep, but the ever present reality is always watching. We are that reality, that conciousness, but we mistake ourselves to be our personality.
Through meditation, you can be aware of being unconcious. When you are asleep, there is no 'you' left, and that is when we can be aware of the conciousness through which all of life flows.
Ofcourse, all this may appear bullshit to you, and you are perfectly justified in that opinion, but this is a thread on enlighnment, and enlighnment was never logical.