evolutýon???? - Page 3

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if the bible is any sort of guideline for belief on this topic so maybe did God create the possibility of humans instead of actually crating us. thoughts?

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Biblical reference to the creation of biological life forms then the addition of soul (aspect of spirit) to form human beings => to form angelic beings (spiritual beings)?
Life of this world then is coming to terms with physical form while manifesting spiritual values=> transition of spirits w/o form to spirits w/ capacity to take on physical form.
Jesus heals (cast out the demon legion which enter the herd of swine) That we were made (creeated) a little lower for a time.

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that seems like a contradiction

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I believe that living beings already present can evolve. But I don't believe that nothingness can evolve into something. Evolution doesn't explain origin it is the process that happens to something already in existence.

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I believe that living beings already present can evolve. But I don't believe that nothingness can evolve into something. Evolution doesn't explain origin it is the process that happens to something already in existence.

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Ethereal: your statement leaves so many gaps in it, it still remains a contradiction. Firstly, believing that current living organisms can evolve, yet all organisms of the past can't is an ignorant and illogic statement. You need to understand that life didn't evolve from nothing. Evolution is all the changes that have ocurred in living things since the beginning of life. The common ancestor for all living things was the first prokaryote cell (~3.5billion y.a). The earth is 4.5 billion yrs old. Life doesn't arise spontaneously. The first living thing came from a mixture of non-organic chemicals such as glucose, amino acids and nucleotides. There is much detail in this area. Secondly, what 'origin' are you refering to? the origin of life on earth, the origin of planet Earth, or the origin of the universe? Be specific.

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mixture of non-organic chemicals such as glucose, amino acids and nucleotides.

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Th list of substances all contain carbon & are organic by definition so I assume you mean non-bio-organic composition?

Sorry, I meant a mixture of inorganic molecules- such as ammonium, hydrogen and water, plus an electric current, which reacted together to produce small organic molecules- glucose, amino acids and nucelotides.

Odd thought but don't simple single cells have some form of DNA in order to divide and multiply?

yes, all cells contain DNA that can carry out cell division and/or replication.

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believing that current living organisms can evolve, yet all organisms of the past can't is an ignorant and illogic statement

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What I mean is that nothing can evolve unless it exists.

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The common ancestor for all living things was the first prokaryote cell

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Where did the prokaryote cell come from?

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The earth is 4.5 billion yrs old

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You know this how? Your theory only works if the earth is so old but what if it isn't?

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The first living thing came from a mixture of non-organic chemicals such as glucose, amino acids and nucleotides

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Where did these things come from?

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Where did the prokaryote cell come from? ...Where did these things come from?

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read my last statement. In the pre-biotic 'soup', water, hydrogen, methane, nitrogen, ammonia and carbon dioxde generated more complex molecules by condensation.

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You know this how? Your theory only works if the earth is so old but what if it isn't?

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Radiometric dating determines geological ages. Atoms of radioactive elements emit radiation as they spontaneously decay. The constant rate of decay allows definition of a geologic clock. This time is measured in half-life. The oldest rocks dated are 3.8 billion years old from Greenland. By measuring the proportion of potassium for example, in a rock we can estimate when the rock formed. The precambrian era extends from the origin of the earth through the formation of the earth's crust, oceans and atmosphere, the origin of life as prokaroytic cells, and the evolution of the first eukaryotes and multicellular organisms.

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A mixture of inorganic molecules- such as ammonium, hydrogen and water, plus an electric current, which reacted together to produce small organic molecules- glucose, amino acids and nucelotides

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How did these things come to be?

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By measuring the proportion of potassium for example, in a rock we can estimate when the rock formed

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This is only guesswork because how can you know how much potassium was in the rock to begin with?

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How did these things come to be?

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Do you want me to explain how inorganic molecules or organic molecules came to be? I presume you mean organic materials.
Organic molecules aren't yet a functional self-replicating life form; however, in an environment with no pre-existing life these molecules may have accumulated and provided a rich environment for chemical evolution. This produced small organic molecules- glucose, amino acids and nucelotides. Condensation reactions lead to the formation of proteins, polysaccharides, lipids, nucleic acids. Once organic compounds had formed, proteinoids formed. Proteinnoids when boiled formed microspheres, which exhibited cell-like properties. Hence the first protocell was created, and started the first ever population of life. These first living cells fermented prebiotic organic compounds. This was all in the absence of a oxygenated atmosphere. To summarize- firstly chemosynthesis occurs, secondly biosynthesis, and thirdly the development of complex chemical machinery (like DNA) used for replication.

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This is only guesswork because how can you know how much potassium was in the rock to begin with?

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A potassium-40 half life is 50 billion years. And remember the age of the earth is ~4billion years. By measuring the proportion of radioactive material the date of the rock is found. If the rock contains the radioactive isotope and decay product in the ratio of 1:1 then it is 1.25 billion years old. If there is a higher proportion then the rock is older. Its not guesswork mate, it is scientific evidence.

And where did the organic materials come from? You start based on the assumption that something existed in the first place in order to evolve but you don't know how it arrived. Otherwise you are trying to tell me that we evolved from nothingness.

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If the rock contains the radioactive isotope and decay product in the ratio of 1:1 then it is 1.25 billion years old. If there is a higher proportion then the rock is older. Its not guesswork mate, it is scientific evidence.

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How do they know how much potassium was there to begin with? What about temperature changes?

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And where did the organic materials come from?

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organic materials came from inorganic molecules, ie from the primitive atmosphere (as I've already established).

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How do they know how much potassium was there to begin with? What about temperature changes?

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The potassium was always there, and always will be there until it has decayed with a half life of 50 billion years. I've already told you how they know how much potassium was there to begin with. If your still confused, google- 'isotopic dating', it may give you more insight. Temperature is irrelevent.

Quite frankly your trying to make a discussion which isn't exactly constructive on your part. Whatever you ask, there are already answers for. Go and read a book on the origin of life.

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organic materials came from inorganic molecules, ie from the primitive atmosphere (as I've already established).

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You keep missing the point. Whatever your starting blocks for evolution (be it organic matter, inorganic, primitive atmosphere) Where did it all come from?

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and always will be there until it has decayed with a half life of 50 billion years.

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When I looked it up it was only 1.3 Billion years. And what i read about isotopic dating was not very useful just circular arguement. And object so old emits this much radiation. An object that emits so much radiation is this old. So if you can suggest some better reading material please do so.

You've been asking the questions, and Ive been answering them. It seems you should've asked where did inorganic materials derive from. And that question corresponds to the origin of the universe. Inorganic material came from chemical evolution. It formed from processes in gravitational compaction, weathering, and radiaoctive decay. The composition of minerals were (and are) generated from volcanic events, and plate tectonics. Now if you want to know the origin of chemical elements read into theories such as the big bang. Remember this is a discussion of evolution not geochemistry or astrophysics

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When I looked it up it was only 1.3 Billion years. And what i read about isotopic dating was not very useful just circular arguement. And object so old emits this much radiation. An object that emits so much radiation is this old. So if you can suggest some better reading material please do so.

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I did say it 'may' help you. I'm sure your aware the internet can be rather dodgy. Anyways, ill give you some reliable/accurate reading material later today (when I get back to my desk).