Infinite universes from Matter and Anti-Matter - Page 2

lets assume infinity is all. From infinity localalised events are created. How then, if you are a local being in an infinite universe, is your view of infinity real? In fact, where is the line that seperates you from the universe? You change mass, size, shape, every fraction of a second-just by breathing for one. To get away from this, the self is seperate from, yet related to what can only be infinity. As such, you are one creating localised events, you are not a localised event creating the one. Thus, matter and antimatter are solely localised products of infinity, and time is just memory of change.

I agree with heyme1.

It has been said that everything is relativ. And this is basicly the way I think that we proces events. We base everything of something else. We base time on how fast the earth rotates around the sun, and how fast ´the earth rotate around ourself. And in more primitive times, how fast our heart beats.

After that we can ultimatly say how long ago our universe have existed. But after that it gets kind of hard. Cuz you cant really compare anything to infinity and come out with something else then "infinity is bigger".

So at this point we can really start to understand the term "Time is just an illusion". And as heyjme1 said, "time is just memory of change".

Also since we base our thought around comparing one thing with another basicly, the term "Infinity" becomes kind of a mind bender.

Hi all I know I'm new to all these posts and they are dated September and I'm writing this in December, so maybe one of you will get to it in 2007.

Anyway I have loved reading all these posts on deep subjects and just find it hilarious seeing you all trying to make sense of it.

This is the toughest question of all, the origins of the universe, and how it fits with the even bigger picture of how and why it exists. With our limited intelligence I definately think we are fighting a losing battle trying to understand. However the idea of multiple universes/alternate realities etc. is certainly more appealing when I start to think of what came before and what comes after. Of course time and reality is relative to our own personal understanding as human beings living on the Earth in this universe, so thinking beyond that isn't going to be a simple thing.

All I can say with my limited understanding is that I think we are living in one of many different realities, I believe heaven is in another reality or dimension or whatever you want to call it and I think if there is a beginning it is so far back it almost doesn't matter. But how can there be a beginning? Surely we can't have a universe made from nothing! The nothing must have contained something to have made something out of it!?

Of course humans have always contemplated these deep thoughts, or we wouldn't have religion, philosophy, science etc. But I do think scientists, physicists especially make things far too complicated by bringing lots of complicated equasions into it all. And they're always trying to combine all their past theories into one big theory of everything, what's up with that? Why does there even have to be a nice neat little underlined theory or answer to all these questions? yeah yeah, I know it's fun to debate them or we wouldn't have this site, oh well, my conclusion is there are many different universes and the energies of them are very different depending on whether they contain matter or anti-matter and occasionally when they come together they anhilate each other and cause a big bang starting the process all over again.

Having said that I do believe in God so as he has always been and always will be I suppose all these realities exist within God's imagination and we are all just his/her/it's dream! Did I just hear a groan through the computer screen... Oh no here we go again...

dont think of the material realm, even if the universe is infinite, the spirtual logical thing to do is to look into the thing that feeds your inner need.

"Look into the thing that feeds your inner need?!"
I think you are talking about that God shaped hole we all seem to have that gives us as creative, spiritual, intelligent beings a "deep an inner desperate need" to find meaning where perhaps ultimately it could be quite possible that there isn't any. This is a constant human inner struggle. To know why we are here. We think there must be a reason that we are who we are and that there is a spiritual reason for our existence. Of course there might be, and I personally really hope there is. Because what would be the point of free will anyway if there wasn't. But I suppose we must hold on to that fraction of an outside chance that there just is no spiritual deeper reaon or meaning for existence, and the universe and us are just complicated accidents, by-products if you will of some vast physical and quite mundane cosmic workings. Who knows?

Anyway I still think time is relative to the individual. I think I am mixing up all the threads and I'm confused to where I was going now, Oh well...

i see your point, but time isnt relative, considering if we're not complete here on our journey in one life time, reincarnation.

Yes but if you are reincarnated, you are still following a pattern of cosmic time - over several life times. Therefore time is still relative to the individual's soul is it not?

well the word importance is one not relevant to a soul for a soul doesnt not need to judge on what's *important* , time would be a materialistic thing for a soul cannot die, time does not effect it in anyways, a soul will do whatever it has to, to reach it's desination, it's goal

I believe linear time is merely a "subjective" category of thought and perception and not an objective physical property of the external world, and infinity, I think, is merely a symptom of the human mind's inability to experience the world as it truly is with respect to time, where everything happens at once, called, in Hindu philosophy, the Eternal Now. One only has to examine the characteristics of our experience of time to realize that the past and future exist "now" beyond our illusory experience of the present which is nothing more than an extremely minute and insignificant "point" or "slit" in some incomprehensible state of things where everything happens at once. The present may be thought of as a “cross-section” of time, a “cross-section of reality that exists simultaneously in the past, present and future. The so-called present does not exist in any real sense of the word because it cannot be captured or measured as any specific moment in time or any specific amount of time. And infinity may represent a kind of "curve of thought" appearing at the two opposite "ends" of time, the infinite past and the infinite future, and, thus, mark out the limitations of the human mind as the external world seems to extend beyond our comprehension, stretching our thought to dissolution. The same can be said for three-dimensional space which is marked by infinity in two opposite directions as well, the infinitely large and the infinitely small. Just as all things happen at once, it may be said that all things are one and three-dimensional space may be, similarly, nothing more than a category of thought and perception and not a physical property of the external world. That being said, it seems to me that each of us may learn to perceive the external world as it truly is by simply understanding the nature of experience of time and our perception of space and determining the possible nature of a world approaching a state of timeless unity. In this sense, it may be asserted that the external world, including everything in the entire universe, may be purely mental in substance, form and function, and the universe may, in fact, exist “within” us, not outside us, and the answers to all that we strive to learn about the universe already exists potentially within us. No need for theories, just self-knowledge and understandingâ€'at least, I'd like to believe soâ€'and that's my crazy theory.

That's a really cool theory, you sound pretty convincing. Actually you sound like you see the the universe and all its dimensions including time as being within us all. Interesting!

Somewhat Similar Infinite Universe Theory to the Original One Written-

Lets say that outside of any possible universe there is an infinite amount of energy that exists. Time and space are non-existant, and there is just an infinite amount of pure energy. This infinite amount energy would cause an infinite number of big bangs, and in other words there would be an infinite number of universes. Now in a big bang energy expands in the form of particles of matter, and throughout the entire life span of a universe there is a constant amount of energy in it, therefore the universe likely has a maximum potential of expansion. Once it reaches its potential it will no longer expand and gravity will probably cause the universe to implode, and all of the matter in the universe should return back to its original state of pure energy.

One thing that scientists haven't really been able to prove is the reason why all the energy was concentrated together, which is why a big bang would happen in the first place. What if there was some part of the chemistry of the way life works that is not made up of matter or anything that we can see in our universe. Something that gives an organism its basic animal instincts and causes it to act the way that specific organism should, because it is kind of illogical that random particles of matter bonded together in specific strands of DNA somehow just simply have survival instincts. Evolution makes perfect sence for giving an organism physical material survival advantages, but I believe an organisms instictive knowledge of how to survive as that organism has to come from somewhere. Well anyways the rest of my theory is completely based on this so i hope its somewhat logical, and really all i'm trying to do is turn what most people would explain as the soul into a scientific entity. For the purpose of arguments sake I'm going to call this the "concept" of an organism. Again this is all based on the idea that existance is an infinite amount of pure energy and I hypothisize that infinite "concepts" would also exist. So basically what i'm saying is that there are two parts to existance. The first being the infinite matterlessness of soly "concepts" and pure energy, and the second is a product of the two parts of the first, causing infinite big bangs ie. infinite universes of matter. (I'll fully explain second would work in the next paragraph.) So finally theres matter and not matter. (When i say not matter i don't mean antimatter, and I am actually placing antimatter in the realm of matter, because as you know it is part of the formation of a universe.)

During a big bang energy is converted into specific elements because of extreme heat and everything else that goes on. My theory is that the concepts would be attracted to the specific pure energy that converts into the specific elements that create the exact suitable environment for the organism that the concept is of. Numerous concepts would be attracted to the same specific pure energy causing the energy to become highly concentrated, and this would be the currently unexplainable reason for why a big bang would happen in the first place. Because DNA is just cells with specific chemical bonds the same attraction that would have caused the concepts to be attracted to the specific types of pure energy would cause the concepts to be attracted to the specific DNA of their organism. The underlying attraction of the concept would likely be to the DNA of its conceptualized organism, however the elements that make up an organism also make up its environment, and therefore if the concept were attracted to its conceptualized organisms DNA, it would in turn be attracting the pure energy that would form elements necessary for the of life its conceptualized organism. In this theory the concepts would be essential to the big bang happening, however life in general or the specific organism that the concept is of wouldn't necessarily have to develop in every universe because if there was infinite pure energy time would not really exist until the concept joined its organism, so it would not matter if a concept was part of a universe that did not provide it life, because eventually by mathematical probability a suitable environment for life would occur, and this whole cycle would just keep happening with no time frame whatsoever.

This theory could also allow for the existance of pure energy that forms into elements that don't exist in our universe, and concepts that we could never imagine that are attracted to and made up of this different elements. If existence of pure energy was infinite, and this theory were true than anything we could possibly think of would and does exist, because there would be an infinite amount of elements that could come from the infinite amount of pure energy, and therefore anything we could concieve plus infinite elements we couldn't concieve would exist. There could be a being composed of elements that could be almost weightless and it could be able to float around wherever it wanted to go. Anything we could imagine and more could possibly exist.

I know this theory is pretty ridiculous, and could never come close to being proven in the slightest, but I just thought that I'd try to explain the unexplainable by using something other than God, and the fact that there isn't scientific evidence against this being possible definitely says something about how crazy existance could actually be.

Hmm Think about this. What if this reality, what if what we seem to be true=true as in... Laws of gravity came to be is actually a faultation of a greater time and space. A fluxuation of god's mistake? All mighty but everyone makes faulty errors. EVEN lets just say there was none.... (The other side of perspective) Could this universe came to be and all the other universes made was from 2000000000000000000000^20000 years ago when an enity pressed a key equivelant to a piano key.... ? Could this universe in general be caused just by a simple tiny subatomic fluxuation? Of course anything is possible according to the human mind and the real law of the universe : Infinite

Only reason why we say it's not possible because of our punitive materialistic minds which sets limitations so we would not go nuts or worry ourselves to death of this fear of the unknown. What we do is pick one perspective (science) and live by it as if it's the LAW OF GOD. While in reality 1+4^44 could equal earth and two humans.

The trick to me is to seperate every-thing from all.

As regards universes..let me just show how the word is creatred to me and hopefully give some logic here.

universe is two words joined

uni

and

verse.

Just like a book has verses, it also has sentences, paragraphs, verses, and chapters, in that order.

To me, all spirituality, is like reading from this one verse, universe, and then speculating on the entire book of all. We must first, really undersatnd our verse first, then each chapter and so on. Spirituality, brought under the texts as religion, is like a projection of imagination into the unkown.

So for this reason philip, 1+4^44 equal earth and two humans but it doesn't with almost certainty. Feel free to dwell on this and if you come up with a reasonable answer I'll listen. As for time, well that is understandable I think because it is within our verse of experience, and therefore, at least we have a base.

This is why people can not truely move fowards. Logic.... Science.. Logic tells you that UNI-verse means one univers, but yet agian.... as I said before 1= actually equals two.... and actually equals more than one. Anything exist.... Well think about it... What is science and logic?.. It's the imagination. What is the imagination??? Reality to most.... You are indeed contradicting yourself when you say i do not make logical sense. For the word logic is very vague.

Long thread -- long theory?
They say that electro-magnetic energy 9radition exist beyond our means to measure? So how do they know that it continues to exist beyond our own infiniminticle particles of existence? The Basic nature of things that anti-matter could exist therefore we must disprove it's existence?

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Now that we have gotten that out of the way. The theory I have goes something like this. In a beginning (not THE) the universe was filled with void and pure energy (void being vacume). Since energy tends not to do nothing it did something.

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Perhaps a little off topic but since mass & energy are in equivilency then the distinction should be made between space in which energy fields extend or exist & a void where nothing exists?

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*note atomic theory extends that separation exist between levels in the Periodic Table => inner energy shells & the outer bands.

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