Questioning his Behaviour - Page 2

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secret07 you seem to say that you believe every one sees good and bad the same way, wow....
I will stop there and say no more

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a stunning argument. i am duly impressed. yes, i think everyone sees the difference between good and bad. murder is bad, adultery is bad, tretchery is bad, lying is bad, love is good, honesty is good, bravery is good. do you disagree?

"Good" seems to be relative, for example, Bravery is only seen as good to some people. The 9-11 terrorists could be seen as "brave" but that doesn't make them "good",

Errm I think you may find religion, notably Christianity, or at least Christians, has changed quite alot over the years to mould in with the present society. The Bible I am sure is interpreted differently now than it was say 1000 years ago. Lots of people do not believe Adam and Eve literally, for instance, but see it as an allegory (is this the right word..?: what I mean is a fictional story used to portray what happened (Like God and his seven day creation). Someone hit me for quoting the Old Testament.

"All scripture is God breathed". if one calls themselves a Christian, they must take the literal events laid out in the Bible as fact. in cases where things are representative, such as in parts of revelation, it is stated that they are so, for instance they occur in a dream. the Bible has not changed. copies of the old testament are some of the earliest known books, or scrolls of you will, and they are exactly the same as the current ones the Jews use. the Jews were extremely good on keeping the torah intact. after a new copy had been made a head scribe would flip to a random page and word of the new version and if it didnt match precisely with the old, the new copy was burned. also, most Jewish men memorized the entire Torah. the bible is the same today as it was 1000 years ago, just in a different language.

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"Good" seems to be relative, for example, Bravery is only seen as good to some people. The 9-11 terrorists could be seen as "brave" but that doesn't make them "good",

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no, but bravery is still good. the terrorists think bravery is good, and we think it is good. Bravery, in and of itself, is always good.

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Fact and allegory is not so clear-cut in the Bible...the reason people though left-handed people were evil is because they would not sit on the right-hand of the father. You will find that nowhere I think does it say God is actually a being like a human (created in his own image, yes, but this is a very open statement). However, a lot is fact, and cannot be extended too far...for then it does become contradiction. This is where I avoid discussing different sects simply because most have other codes they try to fit in with the Bible. Catholocism has certainly changed its views over time. Church of England was probably invented to justify King Henry VIII's desires. Actually this reinforces that the view of religion changes through time, albeit against the reality of its origins.

there is a difference between sects and denominations. the differences between denominatations are miniscule. it is more about the preference one may have for worship then anything else. Sects off Christianity, mormonism for instance, are not Christianity. they believe in more prophets, add ons to the bible.

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Fact and allegory is not so clear-cut in the Bible...the reason people though left-handed people were evil is because they would not sit on the right-hand of the father.

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where in the Bible does it say that? of course there are false interpretations, that doesnt mean the Bible is false. doesnt make sense anyway. Jesus sits at the right hand of God.

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You will find that nowhere I think does it say God is actually a being like a human (created in his own image, yes, but this is a very open statement)

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"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." so God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them. -Genesis 1:26-27

It does not really matter whether God looks like us or not. the primary likeness between He and us is our minds, the fact that we are rational in a way no other creature is. other creatures may think, but they do not reason like a human.

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However, a lot is fact, and cannot be extended too far...for then it does become contradiction.

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you would be shocked to discover how many of those contradictions make sense in the course of the Bible. And, if the Bible was just made up, for the sake of creating a religion, why would they have put in such apparent contradictions?

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Yes, indeed I do disagree.

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ok, which one of those which i said was good is bad and which which i said was bad is good?

1. Sect vs. denomination

Denominition

A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.

Sect

A group of people forming a distinct unit within a larger group by virtue of certain refinements or distinctions of belief or practice.

Therefore there is a difference between sect and denomination....not great but that little difference does change it. I dislike words because they get twisted up...I use the phrase 'a word is known by the company it keeps'.

Bible stuff....

There are two stories in the Bible: one is old one is new. Everyone should recognise the difference between them by reading them. I do agree in many ways it seems clear that God should be seen as a kind of ruler. I am not a Christian but I will try and defend truth.


2. God as a human image.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." so God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them. -Genesis 1:26-27

'God is a Spirit' (John 4:24)

'A spirit hath not flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39)

"No man hath seen God at any time" (John 1:18)

3. The right hand and left hand of the Father

The right hand of the lord doeth valiantly, the right hand of the lord is exalted. (Psalm 118 v 15,16)

As for the left hand:

A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. (Ecclesiastes 10:2).

[Jesus is ] "on the right hand of God" (Mark 16:19)

Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Arts 7:56)

Is this metaphor or physical? What do you think?

4.

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you would be shocked to discover how many of those contradictions make sense in the course of the Bible. And, if the Bible was just made up, for the sake of creating a religion, why would they have put in such apparent contradictions?

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Truth is you see what you want to see. It is a very awkward task to then get to the bottom of truth. You can argue really what you want to argue in the Bible it is so big. Ironically this thread show that. This is why a closed mind either ofthe Bible's obvious truth or its obvious falsehood is a problem.

Everyone needs a belief in something...to stick their staff somewhere so everything can be seen clearly. There are some obviously silly places like a cave and some clearly better places like the top of a mountain.

Let us assume you anchor your boat in this sea of uncertainty. You can casr it rigidly but if it breaks yo'll lose your ties altogether. So to ride the waves best, although you may not get precision in direction, you must be willing to losen from a rigid perspective.

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'God is a Spirit' (John 4:24)

'A spirit hath not flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39)

"No man hath seen God at any time" (John 1:18)

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I didnt say God himself was flesh and bones, we are flesh and bones, but our body is a reflection, not of the same material, of God. we are made in God's image, not of the same materials. like a painting is a reflection of that which is painted.

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A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. (Ecclesiastes 10:2).

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the rest of that chapter is metaphorical, written so deliberately. so is that verse.

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[Jesus is ] "on the right hand of God" (Mark 16:19)

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In that time to sit on the right side of a king was a great honor. it doesnt really matter whether it was the right or left, just a cultural thing, picked at random, as cultural things usually are.

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Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Arts 7:56)

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literal. Stephen was dying. before he died, he saw a glimpse of where he was going.

it was once said that the Bible is God's love letter to Christians. there are parts of it which cannot be understood without the guiding of the Holy Spirit.

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I didnt say God himself was flesh and bones, we are flesh and bones, but our body is a reflection, not of the same material, of God. we are made in God's image, not of the same materials. like a painting is a reflection of that which is painted.

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You have good, reasonable logic here. I ask Can God make a boulder so big he cannot lift it above his head? Is God not the boulder?

So the three quotes are, respectively, metaphorical, cultural and literal.

So if:

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Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Arts 7:56)
literal. Stephen was dying. before he died, he saw a glimpse of where he was going.

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is hence literal

and if

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[Jesus is ] "on the right hand of God" (Mark 16:19) plus other quotes relating to God and his throne..e.g. "sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2).

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Is cultural

Then is it very much possible that, in truth, the quote

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Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Arts 7:56)

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Is not also cultural?

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it was once said that the Bible is God's love letter to Christians. there are parts of it which cannot be understood without the guiding of the Holy Spirit.

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To believe you are a Christian means you must have been educated at least by the Bible or via other means which have at some point been so: there were no Christians before Christ by definition.

So we assume God written his love letter before Christians came about. Yet if Christians need the Holy Spirit in order to underrstand it; and people need to be lucky in order to be able to access the Bible (place, right eductaion etc.) then that seems a little like elitism.

Second: If everyone has the Holy Spirit why do people read it differently? unless of course you have to read it to develop the Holy Spirit but then that means the Holy spirit has to be sought and we go back to elitism.

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good depends on what angle you see it from

such as conquerors think what they did was good but the country they conquered didn't

what Jesus did was good but by some people might not see it like that
bringing people back from the dead
seen as good but that person might be a murderer say

Maybe faith(God) is required for good to exist. Its because we dont know its very definition, that we have faith someone else does...

Aside from our opinions-many can often find injustice in many forms. As long as they compare a scenario (and those in it), to one they've grown accustom to encountering.

If you see someone suffering significantly more than another, who has committed the same crime, you feel there is an injustice.

Compassion allows us to obtain a better understanding of anothers perspective. Because no single person knows true "right and wrong". But everyone knows, that "everyone" has an opinion or personal idea of it.

The most anyone could do is have faith in an ultimate right and wrong, -while trying not to undermine anothers opinions of it.

Its really all necessity. Theres nothing more necessary to live than necessity..
its what keeps you alive.

Whats funny, is that by not allowing your opinion to impose on anothers judgement/opinions...they're opinion of you turns to "good"


Its simply the best policy. No one is harmed or offended. But everyone is treated equally. If that isnt good, i dont know what is. -but it is most justified.

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