Do we really exist? - Page 2

St Jimmy, your getting the idea of how our body functions, but you need to know that we do not have control over which chemical reactions take place. The majority of you body functions involuntary not voluntary. That is why our brain is so fascinating as it controls everything in an involuntary way.

but do we really controll all those chemical reactions? I mean say I decide to pick up that glass- it is just a result of atoms interacting in a certain way inside my brain, probably due to me being thirsty. Now in the case that I can choose weather or not to pick up that glass and the particles move in a different way, but what moves them then? There must be some outside influence, such as the water being contaminated or even my trying to prove that I do have free will, but the fact of the matter is, our so called 'choice' is greatly reduced

Ive neva done philosopphy and im just 14, but i couldn't resist avein a say!

Firstly in ur question you said "An atom does not need any food, drink, nutrition to keep living." but right after you said "an atom is not alive"!

Anyway to answer this question you have to firstly define death, nutrition and intelligence. Death: If you think about it death doesnt exist what we call death is just cells which are made up of atoms not multiplying anymore this eventually leads to muscle failiure (heart) so in fact there is not such a thing as death its just chemistry changing its course. If body movement means life (were you dead before you were born!!) Nutrition: again you have to think differently about this you said " we need nutrition" nothing needs, nothing else in the universe nutrition isnt a need because as u said atoms dont need food to exist its just chemistry (fuel) charbohydrates from the food burn with oxygen to release heat, its something that happens because of laws of elements it is not a need. Inteligence: tough one, is a calculator intelligent? or the computer ur sitting in front of? it can certainly do many things better than ur brain. I think we are not intelligent, neither is the calculator again its just chemistry! signs of intelligence like thought, calculations and motor abilities are simply electric signals through thin tissues in you head or microchips in computers.

So the answer to you question my friend is that we dont die, we dont need nutrition and we are not intelligent may be hard accept but we are just things that go with the flow of the universe just like everything else in it.

this is just like asking what makes the person that you are. u can physically take away limbs, organs, etc and still have that person left.

yes we are made up of atoms and with those atoms we become something with great potential. a potential to think, work, love..if u believe in that.. heh.. im not sure if comparing a person to a bunch of atoms is fair since the collection of things usually amount to something greater than just 1+1.. hope that makes some sense!

For starters, atoms aren't things, they have the potential to be things when amassed with like fragments of potentiated energy.

We exist on the simple basis of all matter being the result of atoms coexisting in a single form. But in the sense of, 'Do I exist'... I'd have to say yes. Because the mind is merely the quantum signature present in the electrical pathways of the brain.

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this is just like asking what makes the person that you are. u can physically take away limbs, organs, etc and still have that person left.

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Exactly, imagine all our brains are put on a table, withought life having a chance to leave impressions on it. Would there be any difference in them? I don't think so. The differention arises only when the brain is exposed to the experiances of life, which give rise to the feeling of 'I'. Perception cannot be trusted, but it is perception that creates this 'I'. We mistake ourselves to be our personality, something which is constantly changing. How can I literally be a different person five years from now? So infact yes, some entity may exist, but that feeling of 'me' is not our true nature.

And 4720, the thing that makes human intelliegnce superior to computer is learnig. Essentially computers don't have any 'intelligence', they just do what they'r programmed to do.
I think Intelligence itself is also not of a 'real reality', as it also arises because of the impressions that life leaves on us. Our ability to determine 1+1=2 arises because suce objects exist(which can be used in mathmatics). If there were no mountains etc, ther'd be no trignomatical ratios for example. Other aspects of intelligence such as common sense also arise because of the affects of our surroundings.

There are two types of realities. One is that which arises because of the influence of life, while the other is of a fundemental nature, such as emotion. Kant has reffered to this sort of knowledge as a 'priori'.

nywayz, welcome 4720, u look like an intelligent fellow and lets hope you post more posts

Thanx angel of death

Ave you ever thought there might be more to us than what we see. I always say if you cant answer a question you must be missing part of the puzzle. What i mean is a sprit/soul like the feeling of existance where doese that come from? nearly all of us think we exist not because of science or matter but of feelings. We all feel that we are us as an individual regardless of body. The body is just a tool or a ride in which our soul stays in. I think we exist because if you were put in a different body you'd still be the same person in a diffrent ride. just like changing cars the driver is the same, and is what that makes the car valuble, a dead body is useless without a soul.

In a quantum sense, you're as eternal as the universe itself.

Your thought parterns, and their subsequent accumulation of quantum/electric ghosts(Your Mind), have existed throughout all time, perhaps even lent form to this universe in some way.

Of course, one human life time is hardly enough time to get to know this incredible side of your mind.

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Your thought parterns, and their subsequent accumulation of quantum/electric ghosts(Your Mind), have existed throughout all time, perhaps even lent form to this universe in some way

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Care to elaborate...?

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if you were put in a different body you'd still be the same person in a diffrent ride.

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No, try to understand, the 'soul' has got nothing to do with our personality and body. The concept of 'you' is restricted purely to your brain. Just think, your current conception of 'me' has arisen because of your experiances etc.
If you mean that if your brain was put in someone elses body, then yes u'd remain the same person, but if your talking about your soul or something, then no, you will become what is in that body's brain.
agian, the awareness that you have of yourself, the 'I', is just a product of your brain. If you were brought up in aghanistan, then your conception of 'me' would be very different.

But yes, as to 'where' this awareness comes from, 'who' or 'what' views the world and hears all these sound? Yes, our brain is provided with stimulai in the form of sensations, but what views those sensations?

I think that this awareness is not located in a specific place, rather all the functionings of the brain give birth to this awarenss. This awareness is also just a part of the brain. When you get past this concept of 'me', and realize what you really are, that is called enlightnment, which the Buddha, Jesus and many otherz achieved by unifying with God, by realizing that their true nature is the ulitmate reality itself.
thrice now I have experiance going beyond 'me' and realizing that this feeling of 'I' is just an illusion

angel of death

If you think personality comes from the brain and past experiences why dont you explain this, there ave been people around the world who've had an accident and totally lost their memory, right cant even remember their names. But they've lived on... started from zero again, so no past experiences but it has been found very sygnificantly that they still develop the same preferances they had before the accident like favorite food, colour, tastes in the opposite sex and ect. If you theory is right surely these people should develop new tastes right? because their past experience has changed. (by the way read it in magazine: new scientist)

well I think I llhave to try to find an article like dat one, cuz a documentary on discovery channel showed that when this happned to a women, she became completely different from what she had been. But cud u tell me the issue number etc.

ok, so what ur trying to say is that 'we', our peronality does not come from the brain, but from some sort of 'soul'?
If this were even remotely true, then it would imply that life is pre determined, as the personality of the indivdual has already been decided...

AoD,

What you see as the mind, I see as a simple... yet not, system of thought, and subsequent reverberation of of though, coupled with the reverberations of past thoughts to create an eve changing tapestry of self awareness.

In a sense, your thoughts make you act, and the subsequent 'ghosts' of those thoughts form the mind that desired that action, thus that action has meaning.

yes, thats wat I m saying about our 'awareness' arising because of what takes place in this world. Quite simply, if you had no thoughts, you wouldn't have any feeling of 'me', i.e your peronality. Thats what you do in meditation, the first thing you learn about is 'thoughtlessness', in order for you to get in touch with your true nature. However I think 'awareness' is a wrong choice of words, rather lets just say feeling of a 'I', because when you are 'aware' of yourself, you automatically start to move into thoughtlessness

Angle of death i kno what youre trying to say. Im also a scientific person i dont believe in bullshit that i cant see either, but what im trying to say is that some basics of ones personality are pre-determined like you said (not all), its like in their DNA, for example when a baby is born wheather he/she cries a lot in the first few days or is really quiet is not up to any past experience how can it be? I read the free will thread nd u sed in there that you dont believe in free will therfore you must believe in life being pre-determined right?

Yes I agree that the basic structure of human existance is determined before hand, in DNA probably. However, regarding ur example of the baby, that is not determined before hand, as it's crying etc is obviously a result of present influences, such a it not getting milk, or being cold etc. But yes, there are some things that are inherent in the human race/DNA that are not a result of outside influences, such as emotion.